New Kickoff Rules Benefit Packers
by Gravity on Mar 22, 2011 4:09 PM CDT
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PrintUPDATE: Here's a link to the SB Nation Story Stream on the topic. And ESPN has comments from Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson.
One of the big rule changes from the owners this year affects kickoffs in a major way, moving all kickoffs from the 30 to the 35 yard line. Evidently the change was made to create less action on kickoffs, where it seems a large portion of injuries occur. Of course like all rule changes, there's much more to it than that, and some of the effects of this change will likely benefit the 2011 Packers in a big way, under the assumption there is a season to be played.
It's no shock to anyone that the Packers were dreadful on Special Teams during the 2010 season, and many Pack fans lamented that if anything would derail the Super Bowl Party Train, it would be an abysmal performance from that unit. The Packers managed to keep the unit under control though, and despite allowing a few big run backs during their six game winning streak at season's end, they managed to play well enough to bring the Lombardi trophy home. Still, there are several factors that need to go right in order to repeat, and the chances of hitting all the right buttons are endangered by the faulty ST unit once again.
However with this new rule change in place, the Packers may have found the safety blanket they need. By moving the kickoff up five yards, teams with power kickers will be rewarded with a greater quantity of touchbacks. Obviously this benefits the team in two ones. One: This nullifies returns completely, and in a division with Devin Hester, it's invaluable to shut down kick returners. Two: It gives the team field position at the twenty, which is about as good as you can ask for. With the Packers ever-strengthening defense, making the opposition travel eighty yards every drive just gives that defense more chances to stop them.
Mason Crosby will, I expect, want to put as many kickoffs into the end zone as possible this year. With the extra five yards, the Packers can almost completely nullify their poor Special Teams unit with good performances from Crosby, and of course Tim Masthay on punts. No matter how bad the tackling and kick coverage is, if these two kickers can have strong and consistent seasons in 2011, there may be little reason to fear kicking plays any longer
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But seriously, this won't have as great of an impact as you think it will.
You assume returners will down it 1-2 yards deep in the endzone. Crosby couldn’t get the ball into the endzone before, and he won’t make it more than 2-3 yards deep now.
It helps us more than other teams but it won’t be a game changer.
Crosby couldn’t get the ball into the endzone before,
I think he was told to kick it high and towards the sidelines to limit the return options and give the coverage teams a better chance to pin them deep! It didn’t always work but thats why he didn’t get nearly as many touchbacks.. He was told to kick high and to the sidelines! The new rule should be advantageous to the Packers cuz Crosby can kick it into the end zone from the 35 w/o much problem… Except maybe in really cold whether.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
what happened to hig leg strength from college?
He could kick 80yd field goals in practice, with a holder. You face the same amount of defense on practice field goals, but you can get much more on the ball since you don’t have to elevate over leaping D-lineman. Why can’t he even get to the endzone now?
Badgers Football: Big Ten Champs
Packers Football: SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!
What's next?
Badgers Basketball: National Champs?
Milwaukee Brewers: World Series Champs?
God, I love sports in the state of Wisconsin right now.
Who said he lost it?
I didn’t. I didn’t say I like the idea of him kicking high and directionally… Just that I thought thats what they asked him to do! Apparently the coaches think thats what allows the least field position or something! Just My Opinion.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Cite what?
I said I THOUGHT thats what they asked… I said “Just My Opinion”…
Can I make it more clear that its MY OPINION? I hardly think so…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Saw it somewhere
I can’t remember where, but I did read an article which stated that last year Slocum directed Crosby to use directional kicking. It further stated that prior to that year, Crosby was ranked very high in the league with regards to the number of touchbacks. I will continue to search for the article and post it if I can find it.
Why the hell did Slocum want less touchbacks and more directional kickoffs?
by PhoenicianPakFan on Mar 23, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
How do you know it was Slocum?
Could just as easily have come from McCarthy!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I thought that same exact thing and my thoughts were this..While Crosby has a strong leg, he doesn’t seem to be able to consistently boot it 4-5 yards deep in the endzone every time. So those times where he doesn’t kick it deep enough, the other team would be allowed a return. I think the staff was worried about those times because of how bad our kickoff coverage unit was. Too me, it seriously seemed like any time we kicked the ball off “normal” (not pooching it or squibbing it), we were in danger of letting up a big return.
I think because of that, we decided to pooch it or squib in order to buy our guys some more time to get down the field. Just my take though.
It’s really pretty embarrassing actually. I honest to God don’t think I’ve ever seen a worse kickoff coverage unit in the NFL.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Mar 23, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Aye...
you and Stroh could both be right. I don’t know that it didn’t come right from McCarthy, but I assumed that the ST coach had control over how the Kickoff coverage worked. But I see your points, that Crosby couldn’t hit guaranteed touchbacks often enough, so they gambled on giving the coverage unit more time vs. hoping they wouldn’t return it.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Mar 23, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
If you paid attention it was obvious...
Just by watching… Almost every time he kicked off, the would hit it high and towards a corner (usually to his right)… I didn’t agree w/ it but thats what they were doing!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
One reason his ability to kick it deep has come into question:
At least in my eyes: The return to Titletown celebration after the Super Bowl. Crosby was being interviewed by Wayne Larrivee, and Larrivee asked him what it felt like to be the one who got to start the Super Bowl. Crosby answered that he “wished he could have crushed it 8 yards into the end zone”, but he didn’t. So I’m not so sure he’s been directed to do directional kicks, it sounds like he’s trying to kick it deep.
Video here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ixVRahfxj8
I was wrong about the 8 yard part, he doesn’t say that, but he says he wanted to crush a touchback. Fast forward to the 2:40 mark for the question asked by Larrivee.
Depends how you look at it.
From his perspective it might have been a macho thing to show off his leg on a big stage. But the coaches wouldn’t let him… I can’t say I know either way but the coaches do alot of directional kicking to limit the return options. Kicking it to one side prevents returns where the guy crosses the field. Kicking down the middle opens the whole field to a return.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Yeah that's what I was thinking.. but it really comes down to coaching
Slocum wanted him to let the returners field the ball outside the endzone. And after a year of trying THAT strategy and failing terribly… I would say to Mason, "kick the f&cking ball out of the endzone.
SUPER BOWL CHAMPS
by Chief Oshkosh on Mar 22, 2011 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
"Two: It gives the team field position at the twenty, which is about as good as you can ask for. "
Touchbacks would come out to the 25, not the 20.
13.
That's what they were discussing before...
But I believe they settled with just leaving the touchback as is, with teams getting it at the 20.
Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
Golden State Warrior fans are cute, talking about the 'We Believe Era.' Yes... an era that lasted all of THREE WEEKS.
They changed that though.
Last I read, they changed it back to a touchback being at the 20 yard line.
I think Crosby and the Pack will be looking to put it into the endzone as much as possible. I’d take the 20 over a threat of a return any day.
"I haven't been out carousing." -Aaron Rodgers
I wonder if Masthay has a stronger leg
If he could reliably kick it 5 to 8 yards deep into the end zone, why not make him the new kickoff guy if this rule takes effect?
I hadn't seen they'd changed that upon approval.
I like it even more that way, it’s just reverting to the classic spot. So when are they moving the goalposts from the end line back to the goal line? ;-)
13.
Chicago media was crying about this.
as they expect it to hurt the Bears. Boo hoo
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
Hester is the best player on that team
So I guess they would have a reason for concern. Can’t say I feel sorry for them, though. Besides, nobody’s saying you have to down it in the endzone, he could still run it out.
And he still will run it out...
He averages over 25 yds per return, so if its 5 yds deep I think he’ll still be taking it out!!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
maybe…but it affects things a lot. There is still the risk factor. His 25 yard average includes numerous 100 yard returns that push the number up.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
If you don't let Hester return them
Your taking a big play weapon, maybe your best weapon, completely out of the game! If I’m Lovie, I let Hester return anything that is less than 5 yds deep.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Yeah I suppose you are probably right. As it sits right now though he rarely does. Should be interesting to see how teams with dynamic return games combat this new rule!
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
And the new blocking rule.
Can no longer have a wedge of any kind! Not even the 2 man ones they allowed last year. Its all man on man blocking now I guess!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Yeah, I read that as well.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Mar 23, 2011 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe it was considered, yes.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Mar 23, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
However you are allowed to substitue.....
lingerie league players for your ST players as a distraction.
Even if there is a return…..nobody will see it until the replays.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Mar 26, 2011 3:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't get it
Why move the kickoffs up 5 yards, and not move the touch backs? Are they trying to make it safer by reducing the number of kick returns? Because that is going to generate more touch backs.
On the other hand, if your kicker cant get it to the endzone, it should generate higher kicks. Which turns kick returning into more of a punt return.
Thats exactly why their doing it...
Make it safer! Apparently they feel too many injuries occur on kickoffs!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
this was how Finley got hurt wasn't it?
I hope Kotsay gets hit by a dump truck and slips into a coma where he is stuck forever in Baseball purgatory having to bat against a three-headed, six-armed Lefty Hydra consisting of Billy Wagner, Damaso Marte, and Randy Johnson. - Shoeless In SC
No, I think he got hurt trying to make a tackle after Lee fumbled on one of the first plays of the game against the Redskins.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Mar 22, 2011 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I don’t think that Finley was on special teams this year. Pretty sure it was on offense trying to make a tackle like packallday555 said.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
Yeah! Eff you Lee! I hope you get bitten by a rabid chipmunk!!!
Wait….which Lee are we talking about again?
by PhoenicianPakFan on Mar 23, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Robert E.
I thought
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
Oh..... In that case...
I kinda liked Robert E. He was a good general. Ended up on the wrong side of a bad war, but still respected him as a professional soldier.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Mar 23, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I was going to say something like that...
But couldn’t remember exactly which side he was on… HS was a LONG time ago! LOL
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
yeah, he turned down command of the fedreal forces...
of the North to fight for his state, which at the time was a much bigger honor. As much as I hate what the South stood for as far as slavery goes, I kind of miss that “10th Amendment” attitude in modern times.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Mar 23, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
He was also anti-slavery
but fought for the south out of loyalty to Virginia.
Badgers Football: Big Ten Champs
Packers Football: SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!
What's next?
Badgers Basketball: National Champs?
Milwaukee Brewers: World Series Champs?
God, I love sports in the state of Wisconsin right now.
maybe they should summon his relatives to help eliminate the slavery that is going on in the NFL right now. ;-)
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
I see what you did there
Badgers Football: Big Ten Champs
Packers Football: SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!
What's next?
Badgers Basketball: National Champs?
Milwaukee Brewers: World Series Champs?
God, I love sports in the state of Wisconsin right now.
Awesome!
Crosby should definitely be able to boot some touchbacks this coming season. This is great news for us. How many times last season would we score a TD only to give up a TD or nice return? Hopefully this rule change and the improvement of our special teams (color me skeptical about that) will result in fewer cases of that.
Fire Slocum
The first Atlanta game, for one!
How many times last season would we score a TD only to give up a … nice return?
That glass is flowing over!
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper. You call that job satisfaction? 'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Ahh, cyclicality
The NFL is basically regressing kickoffs to the way they were 20 years ago, with the exception of the change to the wedge rule. I remember back in the 80’s and 90’s kickoffs were from the 35 yard line. Then somebody decided that there were too many touchbacks and kickoffs weren’t exciting enough, so they moved the kickoffs to the 30 yard line. Now they’ve decided kickoffs are too dangerous, so back to the 35 yard line we go.
I remember
when the KOs were from the 40!
Of course the kickers were straight on back then, rather than sidewinders, and didn’t get near the distance on their kicks.
One reason I like going back to the 35 is that there is more of a difference between the spot of a regular KO, and one following a safety, again. :)
That glass is flowing over!
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper. You call that job satisfaction? 'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Lovie Smith is already bitching about the rule change.
I’m of the opinion that, if you need a return specialist to win your games, you’re just not very good at the football aspect of the game (zing!).
Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
Golden State Warrior fans are cute, talking about the 'We Believe Era.' Yes... an era that lasted all of THREE WEEKS.
Well.....
The Bears are
just not very good at the football aspect of the gamein general…. but yes. I agree.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Mar 23, 2011 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Cleveland and Josh Cribbs might have reason to complain...
They just kissed their offense good-bye.
Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
Golden State Warrior fans are cute, talking about the 'We Believe Era.' Yes... an era that lasted all of THREE WEEKS.
Who better to write this article than "gravity"?
What, you couldn’t get “wind” and “temperature” to co-author?
They were unavailable for comment
Proud Supporter of - The 1996 and 2010 NFL Champions (Green Bay), The 2001 MLB Champions (Arizona),The 2001 and 2010 NCAA BB Champions (Duke) and the 2009 NHL Champions (Pittsburgh)
i'm not a fan of rule changes like this
they are messing with the game. Returns can be dangerous, but they are an exciting part of the game that they are taking away.
I just hate that they do all of this in the name of “safety”, and in the same breath talk about an 18-game season, is ridiculously hypocritical
by rip_city_swagger on Mar 23, 2011 11:50 AM CDT reply actions
Well I think that's on hold for the near future anyway....
18 games may be a future reality but I don’t think it happens in the next couple years.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Mar 23, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Hypocritical...
You mean hypocritical like the players wanting a safer work environment (16 game season) yet not wearing the best helmets for concussions and not wearing the proper padding to prevent injuries? Got it…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Yeah kinda my thinking! Also like players complaining about wanting a safer work environment and then pissing and moaning when the league makes a change to help that happen (right defensive players last year when they started fining for dangerous hits)
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
My take on the "dangerous hits" complaining by players
Was that there’s not an objective way to look at those types of hits. There’s so much gray area when it comes to intent and results on those hits that equal enforcement becomes impossible. The way the system is set up, a guy who intends to lead with his helmet and misses his guy won’t get punished while a guy who unintentionally leads with his helmet and connects could be fined.
I don’t think it’s in the same neighborhood as either of the other two examples here (18-game season and new kick-off rules: 16-game season and improper equipment).
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
Maybe that is A way to look at it. But its not what I heard from the more outspoken players. “Will this make you change the way you play the game?” NOPE was always the answer. It wasn’t about the gray area, it was about their unwillingness to change how they played despite the fact that the way they hit might be leading to unneeded injuries.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Well, that's a fair point
I think some of the less outspoken players did change how they played though. I recall seeing several examples during the season where a guy was going to lay someone out and didn’t, though I can’t think of a specific example.
It’s probably a matter of you can’t lump all players into not caring about safety and you can’t lump all owners into it either.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
We get it.
You hate the players.
Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
Golden State Warrior fans are cute, talking about the 'We Believe Era.' Yes... an era that lasted all of THREE WEEKS.
Not at all...
In the labor dispute I tend towards the owners, but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand what the players are saying or want! And I don’t tolerate hypocritical very well. Both sides have it tho…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Messing with the game?
They are returning the kickoff to the same place it was up until 1994. Did you view it as messing with the game when they moved it to the 30 yard line in 1995? Or does it only qualify as messing now because they’re changing it back to a “less exciting” play?
BEARS STILL @#$%
As a Packer Fan you have to love this rule, It just eliminated 40% of the Bears offense
by gdh31p on Mar 23, 2011 12:28 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
bears fans
I love hearing them cry about this. I had to spend considerable time in Illinois about 2 hours away from Chicago. I have yet to meet another fanbase as disconnected from reality as that one. It actually carries over into fans of all other Chicago / Illinois sports teams. They have this weird sense of entitlement that leads them to believe they deserve LeBron James, Albert Pujols, and the Lombardi Trophy all at the same time.
You don't have to live here.
I have to talk Chicago sports with people if I want to talk any sports. The sad part is, I usually end up knowing more about their teams than they do. They just love their stars ’round these parts.
Badgers Football: Big Ten Champs
Packers Football: SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!
What's next?
Badgers Basketball: National Champs?
Milwaukee Brewers: World Series Champs?
God, I love sports in the state of Wisconsin right now.
That's how I feel in Columbus.
While watching the last OSU-WI hoops game with some friends, one of their fans didn’t even know David Lighty’s name, even though he’s been there for like 15 years.
"Career highlights? I had two. I got an intentional walk from Sandy Koufax and I got out of a rundown against the Mets." - Bob Uecker
I hear ya
I would mention Tyler Colvin to a cubs fan last year and eyes would glaze over, but Soriano has a name so almost everyone loves him. Some have started coming around but he’s Manny Ramirez in a skinnier, less athletic, less productive, and less amusing package. And for your own mental safetey, don’t start trying to explain how Carlos Zambrano is bad for a team.
Badgers Football: Big Ten Champs
Packers Football: SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!
What's next?
Badgers Basketball: National Champs?
Milwaukee Brewers: World Series Champs?
God, I love sports in the state of Wisconsin right now.
Colvin is awesome......which means they will pay him too much or trade him
by PhoenicianPakFan on Mar 26, 2011 3:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Worst case scenario?
He stays a Cubs outfielder. That’s a career killer.
Badgers Football: Big Ten Champs
Packers Football: SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!
Badgers Basketball: Sweet 16
What's next?
Milwaukee Brewers: World Series Champs?
God, I love sports in the state of Wisconsin right now. If only the college guys could turn the corner.
They should have traded Z and kept Lilly....
but nobody would pay Z that salary.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Mar 26, 2011 3:42 AM CDT up reply actions
masthay
I’m a Packers fan who grew up in Kentucky where Masthay went to college. I believe he was at the top of the SEC in touchbacks. I think the NCAA kicks off from the 35, which would mean (in theory) that Masthay could handle kickoffs. I feel like punters doing kickoffs has been done occasionally (Mitch Berger in Anderson’s later years?).
A lot of punters have done kickoffs
Especially for teams whose field goal kickers are getting up in years. The kickers may still be accurate for field goals of 50 yards and under, but they don’t have the leg to boot it 80 yards on kickoffs anymore.
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