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Top 10 Draft Busts Since 1980 - Mike Sherman's 2004 Draft

Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Reggie Brown grabs a pass against Green Bay Packers Ahmad Carroll October 2, 2006 during ESPN Monday Night Football in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. (Photo by Al Messerschmidt/Getty Images)

Green Bay Packers Bust #3: Mike Sherman's 2004 draft. 

I feel bad lumping 6th round pick DT Corey Williams and 7th round pick C Scott Wells in here, who were both outstanding draft picks for those rounds, but this was the draft class that got Mike Sherman fired. The single event that got him fired was the botched Mike McKenzie holdout, but that situation led to this draft class. Once GM Ted Thompson was hired to replace Sherman as GM, it was obvious he wasn't going to keep his demoted predecessor around for long.

The Packers had four picks in the Top 100, and they missed badly on all four. None of them alone was a major sin, but together they were a disaster.

CB Ahmad Carroll, No. 25 overall. This isn't a very high first round pick in it's own right, but it was essential that they draft a cornerback after GM Sherman botched the Mike McKenzie holdout. So he reached for Carroll, who had great speed, but was undersized and a bad match-up against nearly every receiver he faced. He was released mid-2006 after he appeared lost on the field during a blowout loss against the Eagles.

CB Joey Thomas, No. 70 overall. This wasn't a bad spot to take a chance on a player with the size and athleticism to become an outstanding cornerback. Unfortunately the small school player was underwhelming and never developed. Ted Thompson released him during the 2005 season.

DT Donnell Washington, No. 72 overall. The defensive lineman from Clemson was injured during his first training camp, and never made it onto the team. I don't know if it was due to injury, or due to attitude, but he never appeared again in the NFL. Sherman might as well have wasted this pick on a punter...

P B.J. Sander, No. 87 overall. Few teams draft a punter this high, but I can't recall another team trading up for a punter. And for a player that wasn't well regarded. Sander was buried on the 2004 roster so they wouldn't have to release him during his rookie season, and he was awful when given a chance in 2005. But this was a bad pick before he ever stepped onto the field. While this isn't a significant draft spot, it did show how overmatched Sherman was as a GM. 

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Kinda disagree...

Each was a sin… And a couple were major sins! SHerman took Carroll even tho he didn’t fit the size requirement that the Packers had been using for close to a decade. Its not just that he did it to take Carroll, but he passed on getting Chris Gamble to do it! And Gamble does fit the size we want, and has turned out to be a great CB, even making a pro bowl or 2…

Thomas was a bad apple w/ character concerns, which is why he fell. Washington had no work ethic and never fulfilled his talent, which is why he didn’t go sooner.

Trading a 4th and 5th (thereby wasting 2 draft picks) in order to move up to draft BJ Sander was criminal. Probably could have had Sander, if he wanted him that bad, in the 5th! He was the regular punter in college for only 1 year. Sander then got to GB, showed no leg and had a long delivery! Another major blunder…

But your right in that his handling of McKenzie led to this disaster of a draft and his ultimate firing as a GM. Also, Thompson tried to keep Shernan giving him a contract extension… It was SHerman who basically refused to work w/ Thompson! They had worked together under the Wolf/Holmgren regime and had a good working relationship at that time, but Sherman was bitter that he lost the GM position and created tension between them due to it…

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Apr 13, 2011 12:29 PM CDT reply actions  

My reaction, as well.
Each was a sin… And a couple were major sins!

Carroll, for one, and, IMO, Sander (who was drafted in order to kick Josh Bidwell down the road).

"It's a great day to be great, baby!"

"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."

THE BEARS STILL SUCK!

by NorthStarr on Apr 14, 2011 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

So we gave up a 4th, 5th and Josh Bidwell for Sander…splendid!

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Apr 14, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I still vouch that Sherman was doomed the minute he took the GM job.
First, its a LOT of work for anyone and most Coach/GMs fail out…a few can make it work but its a ridiculous amount of pressure to be both the guy making all the calls on players and being the one expected to coach them up.
Second, we let Holmgren go cause he wanted to do both roles and then we give it to a mediocre coach like Sherman a year or two later…THAT was also almost criminal!
Third, I think Sherman was an okay coach but was such a terrible GM that he never really stood a chance. He destroyed his ability to have a chance at winning it all by poor drafting and even poorer cap management.

Yo uare right thought Stroh, it was a pathetic draft. The fact that he got lucky with a late pick in Williams doesn’t discount the fact that he ignored a proven system to take chances on players that didn’t fit. When they failed, the team had no choice but to move on. He should have stuck with the coaching gig and who knows how long he would have been around.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Apr 14, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reinfeld was the 1st choice as GM

Over SHerman, but had just signed w/ Tenn and it wouldn’t have been a promotion for him so Tenn was obliged to grant him an interview. At least thats how I remember it… They didn’t really have many options at that point, so gave it to Sherman and hoped for the best!

Holmgren was wanting power at the wrong time cuz Wolf was in place and wasn’t thought to be going anywhere soon. When Wolf decided to retire, it happened quickly and w/o many options. Different situations between Holmgren and Sherman… But your probably right in that SHerman was doomed the minute he took over that GM job too!

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Apr 14, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Should say

 Tenn was not obliged to grant him an interview.

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Apr 14, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

There HAD to be someone in house that could have at least taken over the job temperarily. I am actually quite surprised they didn’t have a succession plan in place long before then!

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Apr 15, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

It’s kinda’ cheating to put a whole draft class in this series. Plus, like you said…

I feel bad lumping 6th round pick DT Corey Williams and 7th round pick C Scott Wells in here, who were both outstanding draft picks for those rounds

Y’know, to get “only” two good players out of a draft isn’t great, but it’s certainly not Matt Millen territory. And Ahmad Carroll either belongs on the list or he doesn’t. But, to lump him in with others…

Personally, I think you just should’ve put B.J. Sander as your #3 Bust. I don’t think anybody would have disagreed. 3rd rounder or not, the guy was a punter. …and a BAD punter. …that Sherman traded UP for. He was only a 3rd rd pick, but he’s so infamous that we would’ve definitely understood and agreed.

I’m still enjoying the series, though, so don’t get me wrong.

by Curly Lambeau on Apr 13, 2011 12:33 PM CDT reply actions  

He probably should have left the guys individual. It would have pushed more of TT’s guys off the list too then. This was a really bad draft and honestly, it should be occupying two spots instead of one on the list.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Apr 14, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say the Mandarich draft was much worse.

Unless I missed someone, the only good player the Packers got in that draft was Chris Jacke in the 5th or 6th round. And the draft was longer back then!

"I'm tired of pretending I'm not a rock star from Mars."

by Kuhl on Apr 16, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

It was 12 rounds.

And, according to ProFootballReference.com, seven of the Packers’ top eight picks (out of 14 total) lasted in the NFL beyond that year.
They were Mandarich (in the NFL through 1998), DE Matt Brock (1996), QB Anthony Dilweg (1990), WR Jeff Query (1995), RB Vince Workman (1996), Jacke, (1999) and DE Mark Hall (1990).
Not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that those guys were all good; only that they lasted in the league more than one year.
None of the six players we drafted after seventh rounder Hall stuck.

"It's a great day to be great, baby!"

"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."

THE BEARS STILL SUCK!

by NorthStarr on Apr 16, 2011 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, you Packer fans should be happy.

If the class hadn’t been so bad, the Packers never would have hired Thompson and it’s Thompson that won the Packers the Super Bowl this year.

by Coach Owens on Apr 13, 2011 12:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Happy

Oh we’re more than Happy, we’re exstatic! LOL

Like Brandon mentioned tho, it was the McKenzie debacle that did more to get Sherman fired… And I thought about mentioning the upside in my previous post, but it was already longer than I wanted…

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Apr 13, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not only are you correct...

But you can also make the same argument for why we should be happy that we drafted the guy who will obviously be #1 on this list, Tony Mandarich. If we’d drafted Barry Sanders instead, he would’ve lifted us into mediocrity which would’ve saved Lindy Infante’s job for another 5 years. That is exactly what happened in Detroit with Wayne Fontes. So, with Barry hiding all the holes in the roster, it takes longer for Tom Braatz’s and Infante’s incompetence to reveal itself, which means we don’t fire them in time to hire Ron Wolf, so he never hires Holmgren or trades for Favre, which means Reggie White never signs with us, which means… and so on and so forth.

So, in the end, drafting Tony Mandarich was the first, key step in winning the Super Bowl for the Green Bay Packers.

by Curly Lambeau on Apr 13, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

haha new way to look at it. I guess I need to thank Sherman for screwing things up so badly that we had to look elsewhere!

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Apr 14, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Steelers traded up for Daniel Sepulveda

My Seton Hall blog: http://thesetonhallblog.blogspot.com/
My Steelers blog: thenewsteelcurtain.blogspot.com/
2011 Steelers Dream Draft
Mike Pouncey, Ras I Dowling, Kendrick Ellis, Marcus Gilbert, Joe Lefeged, Alex Henry, Steven Friday

by seton hall and steelers on Apr 13, 2011 2:05 PM CDT reply actions  

As soon as I read that line in the post, I knew somebody was going to find an example. I even thought of making one up to beat people to the punch. “Actually, in point of fact, the New York TItans traded up in 1938 to take Tits McGee in the 18th round.”

by Curly Lambeau on Apr 13, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

and even worse...

tits mcgee held out that year and went on to be a pro velodrome racer instead.

dinasour type of guys choir boys

by mittsabishy on Apr 13, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thats the official story but the real "E Hollywood" story....

said that “Broadway Joe” was on that team for a while too and couldn’t keep his hands off of him.

by PhoenicianPakFan on Apr 14, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tits? Really…birth name or nickname???

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Apr 14, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yikes.

In retrospect, that was a horrible draft for the Packers.

But the really bad part is that even at the time, it looked horrible.

by LA Cheese on Apr 13, 2011 3:31 PM CDT reply actions  

yeah…you are right. I remember looking up the size of the corners and shaking my head knowing it was going to end badly. I really really hoped I was wrong.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Apr 14, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

These make you like who we have..

These old drafts really make you appreciate TT and MC. They are less impressed with 40 times/athleticism and more looking for character/hard work ethic/willingness to learn. Yes, we have our Jolly/Underwood, but I forsee both of them showing themselves the door.. I don’t see MC hanging onto Underwood after he showered him with praise only to throw in back in MC’s face at the Dells last year. The biggest bust for TT is a 1st rd DT who just can’t stay healthy…he seems like a guy with a good head on his shoulders, just can’t stay healthy. I for one am very please with what TT has done for the GB fans…always have been…he’s about character, not skills…ie: look at the Cowpokes last year.

by hartz4jc on Apr 14, 2011 10:23 PM CDT reply actions  

2004 draft

Have to disagree with the assessment by the author.

The article very conveniently (for what reason?) neglected the undrafted free agent rookies that were added in 2004.

Cullen Jenkins, enough said.

Colin Cole, one of only 19 players that Pete Carroll kept form their 2009 roster to rebuild with. Quality starter as a 4 down tackle. Let go because he does not fit the 3 down mold.

ALL-PRO fullback Vonta Leach, let go after the 2005 season. HE is much better than anyone we have on the roster, and if there is a dispute their, why was Leach All Pro and not one of our guys.

So the actual haul on 2004. 3 quality defensive line starters, tow who brought a pass rush. A qualify offensive lineman, and an All Pro fullback.

Give our next draft 2 pass rushers, 2 other quality line starters, plus am all pro anything, and we will take that any time.. Say, when was our last draft that landed 5 solid starters including an all pro player?

by Wangster on Apr 15, 2011 11:59 AM CDT reply actions  

“ALL-PRO fullback Vonta Leach, let go after the 2005 season. HE is much better than anyone we have on the roster, and if there is a dispute their, why was Leach All Pro and not one of our guys.”
If he was so good, why was he let go?

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Apr 15, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

By the way…it ignored the Free Agent rookies because it was talking about the DRAFT class of 2004, not the undrafted class of 2004.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Apr 15, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

You can’t be a draft bust if you aren’t drafted. :-)

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Apr 15, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah but its a fair point...

we heap such praise on Thompson partly because of the UDFAs he brings in. So they are fair game. I mean they are part of the draft process (should they be drafted, can they be had after, will they be there, will they sign with us over other teams, etc.)

Not to excuse the ’04 draft, but that does dampen the depression a little.

by PhoenicianPakFan on Apr 16, 2011 4:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

How?

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Apr 16, 2011 5:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ooops Sorry...

Must have misread your comment! My bad… Go back to your happy place!

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Apr 17, 2011 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

The article very conveniently (for what reason?) neglected the undrafted free agent rookies that were added in 2004.

It also neglected to mention the veteran free agents signed that year for the same reason (none of them were drafted that year).

Personally, I think ’04 draft was a cop out; should have just said BJ Sander & been done with it.

13.

by Wiedmann on Apr 15, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not like the Ahmad Carrol and Joey Thomas picks didn't deserve recognition either

I mean, when your top four draft picks in a given season aren’t on the team within 2 years, that’s really astonishing.

Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."

by GoGregGo on Apr 15, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, there was certainly a fair share of stinkers at the top of that draft

I guess my opinion is that if you take all those guys together it warrants the top spot, not #3. Still kinda feels like cheating, though.

13.

by Wiedmann on Apr 15, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

Man, thank goodness we only really have one draft like this to talk about. Those poor Lion fans…

Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."

by GoGregGo on Apr 15, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Lions are doing the top 10 busts since 2001.

And there is still debate of missing players!

"I'm tired of pretending I'm not a rock star from Mars."

by Kuhl on Apr 15, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

In fairness they could have done...

Top 10 busts Acquired in ’01 and there probably would have been people left out. And that goes for any single Matt Millen year.

by PhoenicianPakFan on Apr 16, 2011 4:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

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