Was Davon House A Steal In The Fourth Round?
by Brandon on May 9, 2011 12:00 PM CDT
in Green Bay Packers Draft
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PrintThe first thing I thought about when the Green Bay Packers selected New Mexico State CB Davon House in the fourth round was that GM Ted Thompson rarely drafts cornerbacks. After an initial flurry of four defensive backs in the 2005 draft, he's drafted four cornerbacks in the past six drafts. Only CB Pat Lee was a high draft choice when he was selected in the 2nd round of 2008. The other ones were 2006 4th round CB Will Blackmon, 2009 6th round CB Brandon Underwood, and now House.
He was selected at No. 131 overall, which was way below the grade of No. 56 overall given by NFL Draft Scout. According to his bio, he started every season he was at New Mexico State and he never missed a game due to injury. He didn't play much zone coverage or Cover 2, if any, in college. With so many NFL defenses in that scheme (or variations of it), many teams might have passed on him for that reason alone. It's hard to scout someone if you can't see him in the defense your team is running.
However defensive coordinator Dom Capers runs a lot of press coverage, and he liked House's skill set. Since they can see on film what he can do in their style of offense, he might turn out to be a steal in the fourth round. At 6-1, 200 lbs, and a 40 time of 4.44, he's got a lot of size and speed for a cornerback. NFL Draft Scout also pointed out that he uses that size well in man coverage, and he's got a "good backpedal and quick feet."
I have a lot of respect for the learning curve at cornerback in the NFL. There's a lot they have to be coached on, and they have to watch a lot of film to learn the tendencies of teams and quarterbacks. It took CB Tramon Williams and FS Nick Collins a couple seasons to figure it all out, and the quick arrival of CB Sam Shields is unusual. We should see some glimpses of what he can do, but I don't expect he'll be a finished product for a couple seasons. He should be the 5th or 6th cornerback in 2011.
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Thought it was a great pick
I was hoping we’d get House in the 2nd, and then again in the 3rd. I’m still glad we got Randall Cobb, but getting House too was icing on the cake (in this metaphor Sherrod and Cobb are the cake). It sounds like he’s got great potential and even if he makes the 4th corner spot it doesn’t seem like he’ll be easy to pick on.
As far as drafting CBs, TT probably thinks, “why bother to draft CBs when you can get a Tramon Williams and a Sam Shields as UDFAs?”
53 Bears, 1 Cup
by I voted for Kodos on May 9, 2011 12:20 PM CDT reply actions
A great pick by you guys in the fourth round.
As a Lions fan I would like to say, “Quit hogging all the cornerbacks”. I thought picking House up in the third round would have been great value. Unfortunately, we traded away our third and fourth round picks to get Leshoure.
Actually, I am okay with that move. I don’t see House contributing for at least a year or two, but I think he has a great chance to be a solid NFL starting Corner.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
Well quit hogging CBs
when you guys quit hogging pass-rushing D-linemen or dual-threat running backs.
Brewers, if you're really that desperate to disprove the saying "Defense wins championships" you're going to have to at least hit the ball occasionally.
By the way, don't put him on your practice squad. I doubt he would stay there long.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
I don’t think we’ll be able to get many guys through to the PS anymore. The word is out, the Packers, every year, unleash a bunch of very solid players that are immediately scooped up. I doubt House would even make it trhough to the PS to start with.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
definitely a steal in the 4th. He will be Woodsons replacement in 4 years. Great pick.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
by Marcus Allen Krause on May 9, 2011 1:09 PM CDT reply actions
I'm not sure
From the little I’ve seen, he doesn’t have too much ball awareness (by ball awareness I mean being able to locate the ball in the air when he’s not facing it, not necessarily being able to make ints). I don’t know if that’s correctable, just look at Bush. Completely clueless when he’s not facing the QB. He’s also very susceptible to double moves, but that is correctable.
House has all the athletic skills, and some good technique. And I like a lot that he’s a very willing and sound tackler. He’s strong, he’s not locked in blocks easily, and understands angles, so he’s a very good nickel corner. If he can learn to locate the ball and make a play when he turns his head, he can be really good. I just don’t know if that’s learnable.
All in all, he’s not ready to play defense right now. He would be an improvement as a gunner, and can be at least a good nickel CB, but I worry if he can play man coverage effectively at the NFL level.
It needs to be said, though, that I’ve only seen highlights from him, so take everything I said with a huge grain of salt, and if anyone is familiar with this kid and cares to refute me, please be my guest.
"IT IS TIME"
Love House...
Was all over him leading up to the draft. Looking and hoping we would draft him from the 2nd rd on. His ability to play press coverage is his best trait. He’s got good ball skills from the timing to break up passes, to make the INT, timing his jumps. House was bothered his entire Sr. season by an ankle injury that prevented him from practicing during the week. He actually was in a walking boot during the week almost all season. That hurt his draft stock, as I don’t think he was able to attend the Sr Bowl. He was also probably hurt by playing on a really bad team that may have made him look worse than he was. Teams really didn’t throw at him too much.
As for his awareness, from watching his film and reading about him, it seems to be good. Maybe not elite, but he’s got good awareness of the play and the ability to read and diagnose plays pretty well. His awareness (instincts?) should get better as he gains experience. I don’t think he’ll be someone who gets turned around and out of position too much. I think he’ll be fine!
He was one of my favorite players in the draft… Loved his ability to play press man coverage and just needs more experience in zones. But showed he has ability to play some zone coverage as well. He has a ways to go, but I can see him beating out Lee and Underwood for the Dime CB role and learning from Wood for a couple seasons before moving into a starting job. Definitely has starting potential in a couple years, but like most CB coming to the NFL has a bit of a learning curve.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Being hurt
I knew that, but somehow didn’t remembered. Thanks for the info.
Yeah, it changes things. If he performed like that with an ankle injury, he must be much more fluid and explosive in and out of brakes than he showed. Which was still very good.
"IT IS TIME"
I liked the pick
Looking at the list of other CBs we’ve drafted has me a little worried, as none of those guys has worked out. However, the ability to identify talent and fit in our system is clear in how we acquired and developed Tramon Williams and Sam Shields, so I’m very optimistic about the future of House.
He’s got a great size-speed ratio, which makes him ideal for press coverage as he if physical enough to play bump-and-run but has the speed to stay with guys down-field. To me, this screams Charles Woodson eventual replacement/succession – not directly, but moving Tramon to the #1 CB eventually, having House as the #2, and continuing to use Shields as s a star nickel (Shields is a little too small for top 2 duty).
Some would argue that the Packers didn’t address need areas (DE, OLB), but I really like what they did with the draft. We now have a young and talented offensive line, plenty of talented skill offensive players, a great secondary, etc. Next year we can use our picks to bolster the D-Line and linebacking crops
by rip_city_swagger on May 9, 2011 3:41 PM CDT reply actions
Totally agree.
House is a darn near perfect fit for the Packers, IMO. I can see him taking over some of what Woodson brings to the table. And I also think that Shields, while a great CB is much better suited to play nickel, than he is to be a starter! House and Williams as the starters would work very well, IMO. The biggest thing House has to learn is playing in the slot, a la Woodson. He’s been an outside CB during his entire career from what I’ve been able to tell. But he just might be a viable Woodson replacement in that role.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I feel the same on Shields. I may be wrong but I don’t see him becoming more than a Nickel. He might be one of the best nickels in the league though if he keeps improving. Then again, people said that once about Harris too and he did just fine!
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
But Shields doesn’t play nickel. He plays the #2 Wr when he’s on the field, or the fastest guy. Anyway, he plays outside all the time, not in nickel.
"IT IS TIME"
Define nickel...
Nickel to me is the 5th (5 = nickel) DB or 3rd CB on the field. Slot CB is acually the guy that lines up on the inside WR. Yeah Shields is the outside CB, but he is also the nickel. We play so much nickel Defense that Shields is almost considered a starter anyway. And when he’s up for a contract and close to FA, we’re going to have to pay him like a starter to keep him in GB.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on May 9, 2011 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes but Dime defense doesn't have 10 DBs...
and Quarter defense… well 25 DBs? Thats starting to look like a Viking pre-snap huddle!
by PhoenicianPakFan on May 9, 2011 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
That's it
Heretoforth, the defensive formation with six defensive backs will be known as “Sixpence defense”
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
by GoGregGo on May 9, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
That's good
Not only does it fit, but it will help grow the league in England (groan).
My question: why is the fullback the one between the halfback and the quarterback?
53 Bears, 1 Cup
by I voted for Kodos on May 9, 2011 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So that the real running back can see his full back
Brewers, if you're really that desperate to disprove the saying "Defense wins championships" you're going to have to at least hit the ball occasionally.
I think it’s called dime because there are 2 nickel defenders.
The rest, it’s just the progression of the coins… Quarter… Half dollar…
"IT IS TIME"
Give that man a blue ribbon!
AS opposed to Greg who can seem to figure out 2 nickels is same as a dime!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
That was a joke
You do get jokes, don’t you?
53 Bears, 1 Cup
by I voted for Kodos on May 9, 2011 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
2 nickels are not the same as a dime.
2 nickels are 2 nickels. 2 nickels do make 10 cents however, which is the value of a dime. 2Thus, your statement is incorrect. “2 nickels have the same value as a dime” would be the correct phrasing.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
Unless
you are R.P. MacMurphy, lol.
I bet a dime.
This is not a dime, Martini.
This is a dime.
If you break it in half…
…you don’t get two nickels, you get shit.
Try and smoke it.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
The nickel CB covers the slot receiver. But it’s the same thing.
The point is, why wouldn’t Shields be able to be a starter if he already plays on the outside covering the best or second best wr???
People had doubt about Harris being able to do that, because he only played the nickel, lined up over the slot receiver. That’s not what Shields does. And, like you said, he’s essencially a starter.
"IT IS TIME"
The point is, why wouldn’t Shields be able to be a starter if he already plays on the outside covering the best or second best wr???
My thoughts too. He improved a ridiculous amount through the year, and shut down some pretty good receivers. I think he’s going to be a very good starter.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on May 9, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Shields' improvement
If he keeps improving at his current rate, in three years he’ll be Deion Sanders but with a pair of testicles. I’m excited about his future and think there’s no reason he can’t become a starting corner on our team.
53 Bears, 1 Cup
by I voted for Kodos on May 9, 2011 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
well said, Kodos.
Life is too short to drink bad coffee...
The nickel CB doesn't HAVE to cover the slot reciever!
Some teams he does and others (Packers) he doesn’t. He’s called the nickel cuz he’s the 5th DB, not becuz of who he covers. Harris always lined up outside w/ the Packers. He didn’t cover the slot. ANd he didn’t w/ Philly either, that was Vincent.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I'll try to clarify for PackersRS
He can cover the outside guy, which a starting CB does in the base defense.
Don’t mean to speak for you, but I’m pretty sure this is what you mean.
53 Bears, 1 Cup
by I voted for Kodos on May 9, 2011 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions
It's just the norm
You are right that he doesn’t have to, but he usually does.
It’s just the terminology.
It’s the nickel defense, because it uses 5 dbs. Therefore, the 5th guy is the nickel corner.
But that guy usually covers the slot receiver, so when a DB covers the slot receiver, he’s called the nickel back.
nickel=formation
nickel back=5th db
nickel back=guy who lines up over the slot receiver.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_nickel_cornerback
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110430/PKR01/110430043/Green-Bay-Packers-see-Davon-House-potential-nickel-corner
But, as I said before, nomenclature isn’t important. Role is. I do remember Harris playing inside when he first got here.
The question is whether Shields can start on the outside or not, and he has done it, so I believe he can play. To play in the base, he would have to play better against the run, however, but I also think he has it in him, as evidenced by that time he chased the Jets punter, IIRC.
"IT IS TIME"
by PackersRS on May 10, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thats not really true. He’s not always on the number two guy, they switch woodson and him around based on matchups and playcalls. He’s still the nickel even if he’s lined up on the #2 sometimes.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
I don't remember him playing inside.
First of all, didn’t say he was always against the number 2. He also lines up against the fastest receiver, which usually plays on the outside.
But I don’t remember him playing on the inside.
Care to illustrate with a play? Because I only remember Shields playing on the outside.
On his ints, he was always on the outside.
Against NY: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010122611/2010/REG16/giants@packers
Both picks against the Bears: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011012301/2010/POST20/packers@bears#tab:watch
Against Dallas: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010110711/2010/REG9/cowboys@packers#tab:watch
In fact, in all of those plays, you’ll see Woodson lined up over the slot receiver.
And in Woodson’s picks, the first one against the Lions, it’s the base 3-4, so Shields isn’t on the field:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010100304/2010/REG4/lions@packers#tab:watch
And on the second pick, Woodson is on the inside, with Shields outside.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010103106/2010/REG8/packers@jets#tab:watch
So, in all those examples, Shields is playing on the outside, with Woodson on the inside. That’s not to say he never played, but I honestly don’t remember. If you can name a play were he did, I’ll say otherwise.
However, again, that’s not the point if he plays ALWAYS outside or not. That’s not important if he can be more than a nickel corner (a.k.a. start). It’s that he DOES play outside, which is what the starting corner do, and what you questioned.
"IT IS TIME"
I agree
Shields did seem to line up only on the outside. Thats neither here nor there, And why I mentioned way at the beginning to define nickel… To me the nickel CB is the #3 CB who isn’t involved in the Packers base 34 D. Thats SHields. WHere he lines up or covers is immaterial.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I don’t have time to go through and look through every play for the times he wasn’t on the outside. Man I wish I did…really I do.
Unfortunately I have a job and a rental unit to find tenants for right now. So I’ll just concede the point. He’s still the nickelback though per Stroh’s comment.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
This pick underscores why it is great to be a Packer fan right now
Not only is this team the defending champs, but a lot of positions are still very young. In addition, the positions that are aging have young replacements waiting in the wings (Bulaga, House, Sherrod, Cobb, etc.). This isn’t some team like the Broncos of the late 1990s that is a hodge podge of talented vets making one last run. This is a young team with a lot of talent and a lot of depth.
I never say a team will repeat, or a team will win a title in X number of years. But with the Packers I feel very comfortable saying that they will be a contender for the next 5-7 years at least.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
Not familiar with House
but Windy City Gridiron thinks highly of him. TT drafts good players so I’m okay with him.
I very much like this selection.
Helps shore up the CB position.
Now taking bets on which of our previous CB DON’T make this year’s roster…
Will it be Josh Bell? Brandon Underwood? Or Pat Lee? Who won’t make the cut and thus take the walk of shame?
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 9, 2011 8:21 PM CDT reply actions
My money is on Bell and Underwood
I think Lee hangs on by the skin of his teeth. Lee seems to be a lot like Bush in doing just enough not to get fired, while Underwood has been consistently under performing and having potential but not developing. I think that consistently for both guys continues and Lee lives to play another day.
Also the whole prostitute thing.
by PackApologist on May 9, 2011 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey now...
Green 7 Gold need hookers too! We’re not gonna leave all the hookers for Cincy and Oakland. C’mon now!?!
Life is too short to drink bad coffee...
typo...oops Green & Gold.
Life is too short to drink bad coffee...
ProstituteS - plural
don’t sell the man short now! Go big or go home.
(and yes, this is a joke – no need to pull the moral high ground on me here)
by gern blanston on May 10, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
aw, man
I was going to join you on the moral low ground
"A weapon based on Time . . ." mused Viktor Mulciber. "Well, why not? The one force no one knows how to defeat, resist, or reverse. It kills all forms of life sooner or later. With a Time-weapon you could become the most feared person in history."
"I'd rather be loved," said Root.
Mulciber shrugged. "You're young."
by I voted for Kodos on May 10, 2011 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
we shall see...
CB’s are never a sure thing…a 4th rounder is no better than a 50/50 coin toss if he’ll be a success. As a Packer fan, i hope he makes an impact.
Life is too short to drink bad coffee...
If Tramon Williams and Sam Shields are what we do with undrafted players
Imagine what we’ll get out of a 4th rounder! (feigning ignorance of Pat Lee, Brandon Underwood, Joey Thomas . . .)
"A weapon based on Time . . ." mused Viktor Mulciber. "Well, why not? The one force no one knows how to defeat, resist, or reverse. It kills all forms of life sooner or later. With a Time-weapon you could become the most feared person in history."
"I'd rather be loved," said Root.
Mulciber shrugged. "You're young."
by I voted for Kodos on May 12, 2011 12:13 AM CDT reply actions
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