How Should He Be Remembered: Darren Sharper Edition
by PackApologist on Jun 16, 2011 2:12 AM CDT
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PrintThe mind ponders many odd topics in a slow news cycle. Right now many of are tired of hearing about the lock out (even though it should soon be over). We have spun around how much those new rookies should be able to fit in without actually seeing them practice (once again should be over soon). We have fought on and on about whether Aaron Rodgers should assemble the gang for a pretend practice. So on and so forth....
Well instead of rehashing these issues again my mind has wandered to something different. I don't remember what site or video it was...maybe something from NFL.com....but it was talking about where Darren Sharper might land. At that moment I remembered that he actually spent most of his time as a Packer. Now I did know this before, but it's not something I really think about much anymore. We as fans have become accustomed to players being a bit like mercenaries. They come and go, most of the time looking for top dollar or opportunity. So it's not the end of the world when a player who has been with the team for a while. Sure it's weird at first, and we may have mixed feelings about seeing them in a different uni, but eventually the fan realizes it's all a business and the player is just trying to further his career.
Sharper has not been in Green & Gold for a long time. He's played for a rival and a team that beat the crap out of a rival...he might even end up on a third team as his career continues to wind down. As we have a bit of pause from 2011 and 2010 seems a little distant I stop to ask the question....how do you think we should remember Darren Sharper in Titletown?
Now the way I see it there are four basic levels of remembering or enshiring a player in Green Bay. Level one is entrance in the Packer Hall of Fame. This is a spot reserved for players who have given their years to the franchise and were key players the Packers relied upon through thick and thin. The players inducted into this Hall range from the giants of our franchise (White, Lombardi, Hornung, Starr, Lofton) to the not great but key players of their era (Sharpe [would of been great if not for the injuries], Henderson, Larry McCarren, Johnny Gray, Lynn Dickey, the Majk Man, etc.).
The next level is the ring of honor. These are the names of players who add to the mystique of Lambeau field. They are constant reminders of the tradition and excellence of the Green Bay Packers. Typically these are guys in the Hall of Fame that have given many years to the Packers.
The third level is getting something named after you in the Greater Green Bay area. The Don Hudson Center. Nitschke got a bridge and a field. Candeo got a road. So did Holmgren, Starr, Favre, and Lombardi. Lambeau got the stadium.
The fourth and highest level for a player is the retirement of your number. If you hit this last number you probably have everything lower as well. All I have to do is list the numbers and you will probably know who is assoicated with that number....14, 3, 15, 66, 92, and soon 4.
So where does Sharper fit into this spectrum?
He might have put together a Hall of Fame (I'm talking Canton) career. He also spent most of that career, and built up his reputation as one of the best safeties in the league, in Green Bay. That has to count for something. He was a key defender for the Packers for almost a decade. He also bridged the gap between LeRoy Butler and Nick Collins at the FS position.
He was named part of the all decade team. Has been named to two All-Pro teams (once while with the Packers) and five Pro Bowls.
Of coarse he also started the trend of ex-Packers going to the Vikings. He was a thorn in our side with the Vikes for a few years. He also won his Super Bowl ring with the Saints. (Also keep in mind that most Viking fans hate him these days because of the 2009 NFC Championship game and "X Marks the spot" comments about opening up last season and the potential attacks on Favre...that has to count for something too.)
Right now I say he's a shoe in for the Packer Hall once he hangs it up. I don't see a reason why he shouldn't be put there. I would also say that if he gets into Canton that he should be in the Ring of Honor. Lofton is there even though he had many years with the Bills and Raiders...and Lofton left the Packers during a scandal. Sharper did go to a rival, but he never really had too many great seasons there anyways. As always I'm interesting to hear what all of you think about this....have at it!
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Packers Hall of Fame
He never really did enough as a Packer, IMO, to rate any of the higher honors, and I don’t hold anything post-Packers against him.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
He was immortalized in a YouTube video...
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
by Bush League All Star on Jun 16, 2011 3:00 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
+1 team on your back, doe
http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.
by Mitchell Maurer on Jun 16, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Correction
Sharper did not put the team on his back, doo. That honor belongs to Greeeeg Jennings. Sharper is one of the hardest-hitting safeties in da leeeeague, but is also famous for Marshawn Lynch asking him to, quote, “Hold ma diiiiick!”.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 17, 2011 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Packers HOF, definitely.
Yes, he was victimized in the 04 playoff game by the Vikes (where he had a huge missed tackle on the first Minnesota TD of the game and got burned by an injured Moss for a TD), but his career in GB was solid.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 16, 2011 3:43 AM CDT reply actions
Disagree
“Solid” is exactly the opposite of how I’d describe his career, in GB and overall.
He racked up flashy INT stats at the expense of his assignments. He talked trash in the media, writing checks his teammates had to cash. He was not much of a tackler for a safety.
I wasn’t bitter about him going to the Vikings because I was thought he was as much of a liability as an asset. His big plays (and I admit that there were many) would make sportscenter, but what they didn’t show is all the times he gambled and lost. Because here’s the deal with Sharper: he never had great speed, and so he had to commit entirely to a certain course of action before the play started. When he was right, he made the play (sometimes spectacularly). But, when he was wrong, he’d find himself WAY out of position.
Compare that to somebody like Nick Collins, who reads and reacts, and THEN makes the appropriate play, sometimes making a highlight reel play and othertimes just doing his job. There’s a lot of safeties I’d take before Sharper. He’s like the QB who constantly throws into traffic and makes some great plays and lots of bad ones.
Does a safety like that belong in even the Packer HoF? I don’t know, it’s a tough one. But it’s not bitterness that makes it a close call.
by Curly Lambeau on Jun 16, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Sharper had pretty good speed.
When he entered the league he ran in the 4.4’s, certainly by the time he was 30 he wasn’t that fast. But he was plenty fast as a FS. He was faster than LeRoy Butler. Butler ran in the 4.5’s coming out of FSU.
Sharper occasionally took chances, but I think your way over-stating how often he did it. He deserves to be in the Packer HOF, might make Canton. He’s got 63 INT’s and 11 TD’s. Those numbers are near HOF status. If he gets over 70 INT’s he’s a lock for Canton.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I agree…I think this is one of the classic talking down the guy who leaves takes that we see a lot. Or maybe we just forget about things once a guy is gone…Sharper was generally loved as a defensive leader who made great plays and was one of the people that was the heart of the defense. He’s a lock for the Packer HOF, nothing higher than that though. Has a chance at the NFL HOF but I don’t know…
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Here's the interesting twist...
What if he really does go to Canton? Would that change anyone’s answer?
Sharper to me is interesting because he seems like the anti-Charles Woodson. He had most of his career in Green Bay, but his stand out season seems to be in New Orleans. Woodson played more years in Oakland but really did most of his career work in Green Bay (besides being involved in the Tuck-rule fiasco).
I really think Sharper might get a look for Canton one day and if he gets in then I would say that Ring of Honor is the best place for him.
He has some of the more.....flashy INT numbers.
So he may in this day of stats.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 16, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
It wouldn't for me.
I’d be ok with the Packer HOF because there are some fairly mediocre guys in there who just managed to stick around for a while and make a play every once in a while. I see Sharper pretty much the same way I see Freeman: Good, but not as good as he thinks he is.
If Sharper makes the NFL HOF it’ll be (further) proof that that institution has opened it’s doors far too wide. His main argument will be his longevity and his INT numbers, but there has to be an advanced stat on how many of those INTs actually mattered, to go along with other advanced stats that reveal he was above average for several years and below for several more. Not the stuff of which a HOF career should be made.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 18, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
INTs actually mattered
All INT’s matter, its a tuirnover and turnovers are THE number 1 predictor of winning. The team that wins the turnover differential almost always wins the game. Try to make lite of it if you need to, but they ALL matter.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Not all INT's are created equal
There are plenty interceptions that happen during garbage time…or come from desperate hail mary passes. The later of these really don’t matter one bit.
by PackApologist on Jun 18, 2011 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd assume
That every player will get about the same percentage of their INTs in garbage time. Sharper gambles and makes some mistakes, but he is an awfully good FS. He for sure deserves to be in the Packers HOF and if he has a couple more good season then he deserves to be in the Football HOF as well.
"I'm tired of pretending I'm not a rock star from Mars."
by Kuhl on Jun 19, 2011 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
See this is where my argument for Ring of Honor starts to take root
The majority of Sharper’s career was in Green Bay. In fact the bulk of his good years were in Green Bay as well. Therefore if he does have another couple good seasons and gets inducted into Canton wouldn’t it make sense for him to get up in Lambeau? He’s one of the family who got into the more prestigious hall.
For instance take Johnny Blood McNally. He had most of his career, and most of his good seasons not with the Packers. But…he was with the Packers for some good years and is in the hall. Now he’s in the ring of honor.
Lofton can even be a similar argument as Sharper. He played on better teams and got more playoff experience (and maybe even more national exposure) playing on the Raiders and Bills, but the prime of his career was here. He was the bright shinning start on some terrible, terrible teams. Now he’s up in the ring of honor too.
Sharper was a pretty good defender who was able to make a name for himself and became thought of as one of the best safeties of his era. That reputation (whether you agree with it or not) was primarily due to his time here in Green Bay. If that also buys him a pass to Canton why not put him up in the Ring?
by PackApologist on Jun 20, 2011 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ring of Honor
Is more prestigeous than Canton, at least as it pertains to the Packers. You only get the ring of honor if you spent the vast majority of your career in GB or did something really special for the franchise (see Reggie). What did Sharper do that really cemented his name in Packer lore? He didn’t win a SB in GB.
What Packer records does Sharper hold? Lofton held or holds all the significant recieving records until Driver breaks them.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
How is it more prestigeous?
This is a bold claim with nothing backing it up. Are there any of the Packer players that are in Canton that aren’t up in the Ring?
I can’t think of any.
by PackApologist on Jun 20, 2011 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Are they all?
I thought the ring was seperate from Canton induction. To me as a Packer fan, the ring of honor is more prestigeous in Packers context. Canton is a HOF for players w/o regard to the teams they played for. To the players I’m sure Canton means more, but it doesn’t to me. I tried to find a list of the Ring of Honor to compare to the players in the HOF. I couldn’t find a list for the ring on the Packers website.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I can't think of any names that are left out
The only name that doesn’t appear in both is Ron Wolf. Now I get if the guy isn’t in Canton but still Ring worthy then your standard makes sense…..but look at it like this….
If Sharper were to get into Canton that would mean that there are enough people who think Sharper was one of the greats of his era. At the same time, he played over half his career with the Packers…and only two of those post Packer seasons are truly noteworthy. Wouldn’t that imply that a good chunk of what got him into Canton have happened here in Green Bay? Wouldn’t that put him up there some of those names on that list?
If the ring is truly a higher honor, then who was worthy of Canton, but not worthy of the Ring?
by PackApologist on Jun 21, 2011 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
The ring is for the best of the best. The Packer HOF is for the rest of them. There are 26 Packers that are in the Pro Football HOF, they are not all in the Ring of Honor but they ARE all in the Packer HOF. I think you are getting the Ring of Honor and the Packer HOF confused. There is no way Sharper makes the Ring of Honor…that is for the elite Packers that shaped who the packers were. Sharper would not qualify for that despite being a very very good player.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
I always thought
that the Ring of Honor was for Packers who made the PFHoF.
Not sure where I first got that idea, but something put it into my head a long time ago.
Now, this 2006 article from jsonline seems to confirm that it is generally true, but that an exception was made (by Bob Harlan) for Ron Wolf when he failed to make the cut to 25 in the Pro Football Hall of Fame balloting that year.
Even though the ring is reserved for Hall of Famers, Harlan felt it was time to do something for the man who brought the franchise back into prominence with two Super Bowl appearances in the mid-’90s.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
In which case, I hereby nominate
Mr. Ted Thompson for the Ring of Honor!
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
I can’t imagine a player that would be good enough to make it in the Ring of Honor but not be good enough for Canton. While I don’t think its a requirement, I highly doubt we’ll ever see it happen!
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Agreed.
The Ring of Honor should be a harder get than the HOF, in my opinion, if only because the HOF can be based on what a player did for multiple teams, while the Ring of Honor by definition should be based only on what they contribute to a single franchise.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 21, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I like him for Canton
but not for the Ring of Honor.
That reputation (whether you agree with it or not) was primarily due to his time here in Green Bay.
Disagree. He probably will go into the HOF as a Packer, but at this point his reputation is built just as much on his time with MN and especially NO the past couple years as it is from his time in GB.
"I'm tired of pretending I'm not a rock star from Mars."
Sharper
He probably will go into the HOF as a Packer.
You don’t get inducted into Canton w/ a specific team, you get inducted as an individual. You may be remembered more for playing w/ one team, but you don’t get inducted as Darren Sharper, GB Packer. Just as Darren Sharper.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Really?
I thought the NFL was the same as MLB in that regard.
"I'm tired of pretending I'm not a rock star from Mars."
The actual bust doesn't appear to have a team name under it...
… at least from the photos I’ve seen. But if there are displays about the career elsewhere they depict a uniform, helmet etc. but not necessarily from one team.
Never been there myself, but that’s what it looks like.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 24, 2011 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
He CAN go into the Packer HOF without being in the ring of honor…last time I checked they were different things. So I don’t see why we are making the leap of talking about the Ring of Honor for him. He’s hall worthy but I don’t think he’s anywhere near epic enough to make the Ring of Honor. You can bring that convo up for Favre and havea good discussion but not Sharper IMO.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
I'm thinking Canton not Packer HOF
My argument is that if he gets into Canton then there should be some serious consideration for Ring of Honor.
by PackApologist on Jun 20, 2011 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
And I think there will be.
But I look at the names on the Ring of Honor and I’m completely and totally convinced that Sharper doesn’t belong up there. HOF or not.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 21, 2011 6:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Unless you can prove that an unusually large portion of his picks came in garbage time, this take is complete garbage.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Did you watch him play?
Remember when he hurt his knee running a pick out of the endzone at the end of a half? I do.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 20, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Like Trevor said...
Unless you can prove it, the take is garbage. Turnover differential is the #1 predictor of winning. Turnovers change games.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I can say the same to you. Prove I'm wrong, or your take is garbage.
But I don’t because I don’t want to act like a 5 year old.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 20, 2011 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
fact
All I have to do is point to the turnover dfferential predictor as proof! Teams w/ the most turnovers win the vast amount of games! All the proof I need! Trevor said it first I was agreeing w/ hiim, why aren’t you arguiing w/ him?
I guess disagreeing with you makes someone a 5 yr old?! Maybe you should look at yourself first…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
You're shifting the argument.
I never said turnovers don’t matter. I said many of Sharper’s picks don’t matter. So try again.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 20, 2011 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
No shifting the argument.
It helps prove my point… So, as Trevor pointed out, unless you can prove Sharpers picks don’t matter as much, thats what we have to go by. And apparently you can’t… Let me know when you do and I’ll listen. Your the one making the biased claim, not me.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Jun 20, 2011 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nope. Not going to work.
My assertion is that Sharper padded his stats with meaningless picks. You disagree, then prove me wrong. A bald assertion that “ALL” picks matter doesn’t do so.
Come on Mr. Arrogance. Back up your play. If you can.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 20, 2011 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Your the one making the biased assertion!
You back it up.. Ohh I get it you CAN’T!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Why, because you say so?
Am I just supposed to agree because of your exclamation points? If you think “ALL” interceptions matter, look his picks up and tell me why. Otherwise, you’re just shouting at me because I disagree.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 20, 2011 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't care if you agree or not
But you are the one making the assertion that Sharpers INT’s are somehow less meaningful than other players INT"s are. Back up your assetion.
How is using one (1) exclamation point aguing? Or didn’t you make the assertion that Sharpers INT are mostly garbage and somehow less meaningful than other players? Burden of proof is on the one who makes the assertion. If you would have stated it as an opinion we could just disagree.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I'm still waiting for your proof...
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 20, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
You’ve been Straw’d™!!!
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 20, 2011 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Shifting arguments
First TSSC said that SHarpers INT’s are garbage and less meaningful, now he’s trying to argue that I made some kind of assertion and have to back it up. Sounds to me like he changed the argument!
You’ve been Stroh’d!!!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
His argument is that the INT stats are overrated
Stats aren’t the end-all, be-all of a player’s career. Of course modern players have more INTs than guys who played when the game was dominated by the run.
I think Shaper is a very good player but certainly not Hall of Fame level. As you state below, if LeRoy Butler isn’t even on the HoF radar it’s a shame that Sharper is.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 20, 2011 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I said he might...
And if he gets to 70 INT’s he probably is in the HOF. TSSC never said a thing about it being more a passing league, Only that Sharpers INT’s are mostly garbage time INT’s. And he can’t back it up…
I definietely think Butler should be in the HOF before Sharper. But the voters don’t look at overall play too much, mostly stats.
Now your trying to change his argument so you can what? Agree w/ him or argue?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Hmmm
I thought about staying out of this, and when I entered I thought I’d stay in the middle . . . but, as Eliot once said, “Between the idea and the reality . . . lies the shadow.”
You ask why TSSC chose you instead of Trevor to argue with. . . . Do you really have to ask this? You frequently make statements with no reference and when someone asks you where you got the information you tell them to “look it up”. You often imply what others never inferred, etc. etc. So don’t use the “woe-is-me-I’m-so-persecuted argument”. It doesn’t work for you. You’ve initiated way too many arguments here, and TSSC is about the fairest guy here who’s not an official poster on APC.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 20, 2011 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I use IMO and I think and I believe to qualify my statement more than anyone on this site.
It takes 2 to be in an argument. And you seem to be in alot oft them yourself! He didn’t respond to Trevor calling him on but when I agreed w/ him he CHOSE to respond to me. Some might call that starting an argument.
He made an assertion that if I made I would be forced to back it up or face an argument w/ you. I seem to remember making a statement about reading in a source that the Phx SB had an estimated 350M economic impact. And all I heard for making that assertion is that I, I had to back it up. WHy isn’t TSSC held to that standard? Fair and equal treatment is all I ask! I’m not crying woe is me!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I'm in a lot of arguments?
You’re pretty much the only person I argue with on APC. If you’re keeping track of who’s in a lot of arguments you might want to take a look at your own numbers (or is that on me to look up?).
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 20, 2011 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
and there's the bell.
I could set my watch on these “arguments” but as long as it’s bore from our passions as football fans I’m all for it. Plus I agree that sharper was a stat guy and I was a big fan of his, but he did seem to like the stats over the wins.
by MikeyG76 on Jun 23, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well in this case, you are the one making the point in question so it would be YOUR place to show evidence to back up your claim.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
by TrevorR on Jun 21, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I accept that opinion (though I don't really understand why it is that a person asserting the opposite can't dig up evidence to make their point).
I don’t have a problem with people disagreeing with me. I have a problem with them distorting my position and/or accusing me of “needing” to distort the truth for some reason other than arriving at my conclusion in a logical way. You’ve done neither of those things, so I have no problem with you. Never have.
That said, if you can direct me to a source that details the statistical context of Sharper’s picks, I’m more than happy to take a look to see if my opinion is correct (or at least, arguably correct). I can identify the games in which his picks occurred, and the length of the returns, but I haven’t found a site that spells out the broader statistical context (i.e., the score at the time. the time remaining, etc.) unless the pick was returned for a TD. And those facts are the crux of the disagreement. I’m not sure either of us can “prove” our point without that information. So if you’ve got a suggested source, I’ll do the leg-work since my experience in having conversations with you is that they’re productive.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 21, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish I knew a source like that but I don’t. Ultimately I really don’t care enough to invest too much into a discussion about this so I am okay with you not having the evidence right now. Here is what I want to see though…the only reason I am even in this convo is cause I get frustrated with how often I see former Packers trying to get discredited on their accomplishments by Packer fans. Just cause a guy leaves doesn’t mean its out job to try to destroy his history with the team. I just get frustrated to see it happening over and over.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Ok.
But what if I told you I thought and said the same thing before he left? You don’t have to believe me, I suppose. I’m not mad at Sharper because he left. I really didn’t care that he left, aside from a bit of self-doubt about my read on him when he landed with the Vikings (as in the, what if I’m wrong and he has a great few years and its harder for the Packers to win as a result). I’m just trying to put his career in the proper context as I see it, that’s all.
I don’t know one of those sites either. Wish I did, because I’m curious if the numbers would either back up or undermine my opinion.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 23, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe you…there are some people that didn’t but there are also a lot that play the “screw him he left now he’s dead to me” game and I hate it. Its probably not you and that is fine just a general frustration of mine. :-)
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
I was/am like that with Favre...
… but that’s pretty much it.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 24, 2011 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with this,
and it’s pretty much due to plenty of extenuating circumstances, brought about by BF, himself.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Yeah I went through a phase like that but it was short lived. After a while I realized it was just being contrary to everything I argued in the past. I went from trying to convince people that he was among the top 5 all time to telling people why he shouldn’t be. It was pretty ridiculous really.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
I thought he was in the bottom tier of the top 10 all time when he was here...
… still think so. When I have that conversation people get pissed off when I say I’d take Steve Young over Favre. In a couple of years I’ll probably put Rodgers in front of him too if things keep going the way they are.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 28, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions
And not all turnovers change games.
Some barely matter at all. Anyone who watched Brett Favre chuck a 4th or 5th or 6th INT when his team’s already down by 25 knows those plays didn’t matter.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 20, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I do recall even years ago that one of the criticisms of Sharper...
was only an INT Safety, and that he greatly padded his stats as a roamer playing “centerfield”. Basically, a lot of people think he just sat back there and caught airballs instead of really playing good coverage or taking chances in other ways to help the team.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 20, 2011 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Playing centerfield
Is pretty much the FS role… That is a large part of the job description, whereas the SS is asked alot more to support the run, blitz and cover the TE. Just sayin…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Yeah it is....
but I think the criticism was that he didn’t do much else back there but try to snag flyballs. Could just be based on the defensive play calls though too.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 21, 2011 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Is it even possible for you to disagree with someone without acting like an ass?
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 20, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly how is what I said acting like an ass?
All I did was point out what I think. Guess some just can’t handle someone disagreeing w/ them.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Guess not:
But I’m not the guy who went to all caps or suggested that the person who disagreed with me was “making lite” because they “need to”.
That said, I can’t say I’m surprised. It’s become evident that no one ever bothered to teach you to play nice in the sandbox.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 20, 2011 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hmm..
I’ll remember Sharper as a hard hitter (remember that time he levelled Moss on a crossing route? Didn’t see Moss across the middle again that year) and as a heads up player. It’s been a while, but I remember one of his downsides being that he took some bad chances and gave up big plays as a result. Regardless, Packers HOF but nothing more.
Hard hitter? Really?
I remember him mostly shying away from contact. Moss is built like a scarecrow, so, yeah, he could light him up. But in run support… Atari Bigby he ain’t.
I remember a play when he was with the Saints and they were in the NFC Championship game against the Vikings, and AP was just getting to the 2nd level, and Sharper was right there to make the stop… only he didn’t. He kinda’ crouched into the fetal position, and not just that, but he crouched just to the left of where AP was running! It was very, very clear that he wanted NO part of going for that tackle. AP went for another 25 yards, and somebody else had to make the tackle. …story of Sharper’s career, IMO.
by Curly Lambeau on Jun 16, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
Sharper was never a hitter. Can’t even say he was a good tackler, just good enough. He was a playmaker tho.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I remember,
Can’t even say he was a good tackler, just good enough.
in his early years, the guys I watch the Packers with at the sports bar/restaurant I watch them at and I all wanted him run out of town on a rail.
Then, one day I looked at the stats for the previous season, and, unfortunately (which I say just because he was a DB), he was the team’s leading tackler.
So, I took him in my IDP fantasy draft that year.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Meant to add
wanted him run out of town on a rail.
because he missed so many tackles.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Yeah, he was a playmaker, I’ll give you that.
I remember one play in particular (when he was with the Pack) when he was blitzing and the QB got the pass off, but Sharper jumped up — full extension — and batted the ball in the air, and then came up with it. It was impressive.
I liked the comparison someone else made between him and Antonio Freeman. Very good players, occasionally great, but nothing too special overall.
by Curly Lambeau on Jun 18, 2011 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions
He made a few very big hits in his first two years
And after that he seemed to avoid contact. Went all “Deion Sanders” in his defensive effort, basically. So he did make some hits when he was trying to earn his roster spot, but subsequently cooled to the whole idea of “solid, fundamental tackling”.
I think any defensive player who was on the field for Lynch’s playoff TD run needs to have their heart questioned (I’ve never seen so many players shy away from making a hit in a high-level football game).
I was a Sharper fan, but his going to the Vikings left a bitter taste, and a subsequently biased re-evaluation has me thinking that he deserves no more than the first level of honor.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 17, 2011 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Packers HOF
He might make Canton one day, but if Butler doesnt then I don’t think Sharper should either. He definitely does Not rate the ring of honor as a Packer. Induction to Canton would not elevate his GB standing beyond the Packer HOF. He simply didn’t do enough as a Packer to rate a higher honor!
Couple other things… Sharper has played w/ 3 teams already (GB, Minn and NO) and might be joining a 4th. And LeRoy Butler played SS for the Packers, not FS.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Jun 16, 2011 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
^This
Really sums it up. Sharper has never been nearly as good as Butler. It would be a shame if Sharper got a whiff at the Hall of Fame when Butler hasn’t been on any list of potential HoFers I’ve ever seen.
Even though I just said this, I think this point deserves a paragraph of its own: Darren Sharper has never been close to as good a player as LeRoy Butler was for many years: consistent, sound, and versatile.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 17, 2011 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Butler was one of the best tackling safeties I can remember, and certainly the best I know of in a Packer uniform. Plus he was a fantastic on the blitz – a weapon all over the field. Sharper had excellent ball skills, but he was nowhere near the complete player LeRoy was.
Author at Acme Packing Company
Maybe Packers HoF
But I’ll always remember Darren Sharper as a gambler who gave up more big plays than he made and as a guy who wore purple. Maybe the single most overrated defensive player I’ve seen wear the Green and Gold.
"IT IS TIME"
Sharper..
The only plays that stand out to me were the fatal touchdown to T.O. in the SF playoff game in 1998 and the fatal 4th and 26.
He was a decent player and I’m sure he made a lot of good plays as a Packer, I just don’t really think he’s a Packer Hall of Fame guy..
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
Some of the plays that stick out to me with him involve him making the big play at the end of the game but instead of just going down and letting the game end he’d always try to take it to the house. I remember yelling JUST GO DOWN!!!! But he did have a knack for the big game ending play.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
In that vein....
I always thought of him as a Show-off type (like you mentioned, having to have the big play even if it doesn’t make sense) more than a team first guy (like C-Wood having less flashy stats this year but helping out much more in the scheme he was asked to take part in).
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 23, 2011 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah he was definitely about himself first…though most guys are once they rise to the top. Some more than other (a la Sharper). I still liked him though, he brought an excitement and attitude to GB that wasn’t always there. He had personality…every team needs a little sharper on it! :-)
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Wow, what could have been
Sharper was one of my favorite players… until he opened his mouth (ala Finley) If he stuck around Green Bay I say Hall of fame and Ring of Honor. Right now I say Packers hall of fame. For as good as he was there was just something missing when i didn’t have that Homer vibe going.
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