NFL Network's "Top 100 Players of 2011" Thread #3
by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 1:16 AM CDT
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Due to the Comments closing on the last thread, I have copy/pasted the list and posted it here. It is updated through Player 41.
For those of you who are priveleged enough to have NFL Network, I'm sure you are aware of the series they have running called the "Top 100." They previously ranked the top 100 players of all time, and now they are ranking the top 100 active players for the 2010-2011 season. This list is actually voted on by current NFL players, not analysts and writers like many other ranking shows. I thought I'd create this FanPost as an open thread for debate and discussion about the list. Read the list, and offer your opinions. Who is on here that shouldn't be? Who is too low?
Miscellaneous List Facts:
- 10 Miami Hurricanes on the list, the most of any school
- 7 Packers on the list, the most of any team
- 59 offensive players and 41 defensive players on the list
- 12 QBs on the list
- 2 teams with 0 players on the list
- 5 TEs and 5 OTs on the list
And now the list...
* Bold = Packers
* Italics = Rookies
Episode 1: 91-100
100) Donovan McNabb, QB, WAS
99) Chad Clifton, LT, GB
98) Darren McFadden, RB, OAK
97) Shaun Phillips, OLB, SD
96) Nick Collins, FS, GB
95) Jon Beason, MLB, CAR
94) Frank Gore, RB, SF
93) Eric Berry, SS, KC
92) Lance Briggs, OLB, CHI
91) Terrell Owens, WR, CIN
Episode 2: 81-90
90) Joe Flacco, QB, BAL
89) Adrian Wilson, SS, ARI
88) Vernon Davis, TE, SF
87) Jordan Gross, LT, CAR
86) Josh Freeman, QB, TB
85) Jason Babin, DE, TEN
84) Joshua Cribbs, Weapon, CLE
83) Mike Williams, WR, TB
82) LaMarr Woodley, OLB, PIT
81) B.J. Raji, NT, GB
Episode 3: 71-80
80) Jared Allen, DE, MIN
79) D'Brickashaw Ferguson, LT, NYJ
78) Dallas Clark, TE, IND
77) Chris Snee, G, NYG
76) Santonio Holmes, WR, NYJ
75) Jay Ratliff, NT, DAL
74) Greg Jennings, WR, GB
73) Trent Cole, DE, PHI
72) Tony Romo, QB, DAL
71) Mario Williams, DE, HOU
Episode 4: 61-70
70) Miles Austin, WR, DAL
69) John Abraham, DE, ATL
68) Antrel Rolle, FS, NYG
67) Brian Waters, LG, KC
66) Richard Seymour, DE, OAK
65) Vonta Leach, FB, HOU
64) Tamba Hali, OLB, KC
63) Cameron Wake, OLB, MIA
62) Jerod Mayo, ILB, NE
61) Brandon Marshall, WR, DEN
Episode 5: 51-60
60) Justin Tuck, DE, NYG
59) Jeff Saturday, OC, IND
58) Brandon Lloyd, WR, DEN
57) Andre Gurode, OC, DAL
56) Ray Rice, RB, BAL
55) Carl Nicks, OG, NO
54) Asante Samuel, CB, PHI
53) Marques Colston, WR, NO
52) Matt Ryan, QB, ATL
51) Ndamukong Suh, DT, DET
Episode 6: 41-50
50) Wes Welker, WR, NE
49) Brian Urlacher, LB, CHI
48) Champ Bailey, CB, DEN
47) Nick Mangold, OC, NYJ
46) Tony Gonzalez, TE, ATL
45) Dwayne Bowe, WR, KC
44) Robert Mathis, DE, IND
43) Joe Thomas, LT, CLE
42) Michael Turner, RB, ATL
41) Ben Roethlisberger, QB, PIT
Episode 7: 31-40
40) Terrell Suggs, OLB, BAL
39) Logan Mankins, OG, NE
38) Steven Jackson, RB, STL
37) Jonathan Vilma, MLB, NO
36) Jason Witten, TE, DAL
35) Vince Wilfork, NT, NE
34) Jahri Evans, RG, NO
33) Jamaal Charles, RB, KC
32) Devin Hester, KR, CHI
31) Reggie Wayne, WR, IND
Thread #2
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Comments
Joe Thomas at 43 is a travesty.
He should be top 10.
Dwayne Bowe at 45 is also a travesty. He’s pretty good, but not top-50 in the NFL good.
Author at Acme Packing Company
by texwestern on Jun 7, 2011 8:08 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Agree
Joe Thomas is probably the best LT in the game. I bet if he was on a better team, he would be ranked higher. I’m guessing Bowe is that high due to his league loading 15 touchdown catches. Funny how he disappeared in that post-season game though.
And half the regullar season
If I didn't know better, I'd think the Brewers were a halfway decent baseball team...
Bowe was MADDENING this year
he’d make an amazing catch, then drop an easy 5-yard pass with a defender well off him.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 7, 2011 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
No, we're talking about Dwayne Bowe
not James Jones.
If I didn't know better, I'd think the Brewers were a halfway decent baseball team...
That IS Dwayne Bowe.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 8, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
They have to be
the 2 most frustrating WRs in football.
If I didn't know better, I'd think the Brewers were a halfway decent baseball team...
Niles Paul was up there as well.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Nick Toon SHOULD be up there.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 8, 2011 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I meant was as in prior to the '10 season.
Last year he made significant progress in that regard and really took his game up another level or 2, to a Pro Bowl level. Would love to see Jones do that if he returns to the Packers. Bowe was a god-send waiver pickup for my fantasy team.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Bowe was a god-send waiver pickup for my fantasy team.
The Chiefs are great for that. Jamaal Charles went from waiver wire to my keeper slot in 5 weeks 2 years ago. Bowe saved my brother’s bacon last year in our league.
If I didn't know better, I'd think the Brewers were a halfway decent baseball team...
And yet you don't have an issue with Gonzo being in the top 50????
Maybe like 5 years ago. He is still living off of what he did in KC.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I don't think Gonzo should be top 50 either.
Forgot to mention him because I was too worked up over Thomas and Bowe.
Author at Acme Packing Company
Based on just last year
Which this is supposed to be, Bowe definitely deserved to be on the list.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Bowe yes I agree
On last years stats that is, he should be up there, even with all those wide open drops he had.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I don't know about his drops this year.
Do you have any stats to support that he had alot of drops this past season? I really only remember him making alot of plays. In years past he had his share of drops, but I was under the impression that his drop % went down quite a bit this year.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
i dont have any stats but being a raider fan too ive had lots of convos with chief fans. they all say he had lots of drops.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Jun 17, 2011 1:35 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I would have to go find somewhere that keeps those stats.
But from watching WAY to much TV Bowe has dropped passes where he was wide open. In one game alone he dropped like 5 or 6 that were right in his hands, and 1 was a TD. He went threw a few of those slumps last year, but because the Chiefs had no one else to throw to they had to keep chucking them up to him. The Chiefs were a 2 headed team last year, Bowe and Charles. I am trying to find his stats from last year so I will get back to you on all his drops.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I can find stats but it is a 2008 thru 2010 and Bowe has 33 drops
But that’s not what I’m after. OK I give up trying to find a place that has that stat. I think the footballinsider might have that stat but I’m not going to sign up just so I can MAYBE find a stat. Sorry. All I could find is he dropped 33 balls from 2008 thru 2010 mid season and was targeted 338 times.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Washington Post has stats on dropped passes
Dwayne Bowe had 6 drops last year, and Wes Welker had the most drops in the NFL last year, with 13 drops. Driver is listed with 7, and James Jones has 6. Here it is:
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232&year=2010
You can choose NFL, NFC, or AFC, but I don’t see a complete list.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 17, 2011 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought Bowe got alot better last year.
For all the complaining some do over Jones, I’ve tried to say Drivers been worse, and Driver played in only 13 games? last year.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I wonder if Jennings is credited with a drop-to-interception...
Ugh.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 17, 2011 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, this isn't a drop per se, but the result was...devastating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfrflEdKr-o
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 17, 2011 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
absolutely devastating especially with Rodgers getting knocked out of that game.
I dont think i can put a lot of stock into those listings of drops though, even if they were the official numbers. I know i saw Jones drop more balls than 6 through out the season.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Jun 20, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Greeeeg Jennnnnings
24 spots below Welker? 29 spots below Bowe? What kind of world do we live in? I don’t think either of those guys have ever scored a 99-yard TD with a broken leg. And I know they haven’t the will and determination to put the team on their back like Greg Jennings. To this list, I say, “Hold ma diiiiiick!”
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 7, 2011 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
I note that we have yet to see the name of Darren Sharper
One of da most hardest-hittin’ safeties in da league.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
You should be more mad that Tony Gonzalez is a head of all of those guys
I guess the list goes off of BODY of work not what they did in this decade!
How many lumps you want Doc?
It does that for some,
and for others it doesn’t. Consider Brandon Lloyd’s placement to see what I mean.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
The topic on ESPN's 1st and 10 today was Roethlisberger's placement.
41 – fair or not? They ran down the presumed list of remaining QBS: Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Vick, and Rivers. I’d have a tough time placing him ahead of any of those guys. You could argue Rivers since his team didn’t make the playoffs, but I absolutely hate the argument that uses team success regardless of the circumstances as a case for a player’s greatness.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
I agree with that
You could maybe put him ahead of Rivers due to playoff success, but the other five (and maybe Rivers) impact the game more than Roethlisberger
"I'm tired of pretending I'm not a rock star from Mars."
I put him ahead of Vick. Aside from being exciting to watch, what has Vick really accomplished as a QB? he’s finally looking more the part now but he still isn’t the QB that Ben is.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
I see that too.
I was going back and forth on that, my reasoning is that Vick can change a game more than Roethlisberger. Yes Roethlisberger has won, but it is due to the defense around him. He doesn’t really carry a team like Vick, ARodg, Brady, Manning, and Brees do.
"I'm tired of pretending I'm not a rock star from Mars."
That was always the argument with Brady too though…was it really that he was great or was it that his team around him was so amazing. Then one year they needed him to be amazing and he was. I don’t know if Ben has that in him or not…I tend to think he’s a little overrated by the locals and underrated by much of the rest of the league.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
In all honesty, Brady's best year might have been 2006
He was superb despite having nobody to rely on – his top WRs were free agent pickups (his #2 WR was signed in mid-October off the street!). Net result – 3500 yards and 24 TDs. They got the the AFCG, and were leading 24-6, yet the D blew chunks in the second half and they were overtaken by Manning.
2007 was better stat-wise, 2001, 2003 and 2004 had the better end result, and 2010 was a clinic in efficiency (least possessions, most points), but 2006 was spinning gold from hay.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 10, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I might listen to that argument though after that season, the same argument was being made for him. He was winning due to the system and the D on the other side. It wasn’t until Moss showed up and he broke records that he really shed the “system-QB” title for a lot of people.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
50 TDs is 50 TDs.
But Reche Caldwell looking like an NFL receiver? That’s impressive QBing.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 13, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure but how much of that is Brady and how much of it is the the Patriots system?
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 13, 2011 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Just wanted to point out.
Rodgers won his SB w/ the #2 ranked D. So was it Rodgers or the defense backing him up? You can make your argument about just about any QB who has won a SB! Truth is you need BOTH a Terrific QB and Great D to win a SB, under almost all circumstances!
I’ll take Roethlisberger over Vick myself. Injury factor plays into it. But Ben also is a better leader IMO.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
How do the run games compare?
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Yeah…though system-wise Pitt is a much friendlier running system. I think a better thing to compare though would be what they are asking the QB to do and how he’s running the offense.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
They play to the strengths of their RB.
McCoy is great in space, so they get him in open spaces more. Mendanhall is more of a traditional RB carrying the ball from scrimmage.
I would imagine the offenses are built to take advantage of each QB strengths. Vick is given more freedom to make plays w/ his feet. Ben is a fairly traditional pocket QB, who runs as a last resort. I like Ben’s intangibles more than I like Vicks running ability.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Oops,
I was referring more to GB vs. PIT.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Rodgers is clearly better than Ben.
Pitts run game is better than the Packers. Both have strong defenses. Not sure of your point.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
My point was about
You can make your argument about just about any QB who has won a SB! Truth is you need BOTH a Terrific QB and Great D to win a SB, under almost all circumstances!
I was just mentioning how Rodgers’ SB is more impressive than Ben’s, even subscribing to this philosophy you mention.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
I agree to a point.
Certainly Rodgers played a Huge role in the SB win. Ben’t first SB he didn’t do much to win it. HIs 2nd one, he put together a game winning drive to beat AZ in the last seconds, so he gets credit for that. Even considering that Rodgers probably had to do more to win tho.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Roethlisberger's game-winning drive
Wouldn’t have been possible without James Harrison making the 14-point reversal on his 100-yard return.
And even then, he was going up against a mediocre Cardinals defense. The Steelers shouldn’t have had such difficultly scoring (offensively) up to that point.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 17, 2011 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah people don't remember
That the Cards had 1 of the worst running D’s in the league in the regular season. Even my Lions could have ran against that defense that year. they got hot once they hit the playoffs but the steelers should have dominated that game.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Didn't mean to imply
That Ben was THE reason Pitts won that game, there were others. Their D scored and turned the ball over. But Ben did put the game winning drive together to win at the end. By the same token the Packers probably don’t win this year w/o getting 3 scores off turnovers either. Didn’t we get a defensive TD like Harrisons? And 2 other turnovers that we turned into 2 more TD’s?
Like I said, Rodgers is clearly the better QB…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Rivers is an Elite QB can't argue that
And he will most likely get another ring before his days are done, but the top tier of QB’s should be Brady, Manning,Brees. After that there are some damn close QB’s in the next tier with Rogers,Rivers,Ben,Shaub, (needs a better D) and even Vick. Then there is the 3rd tier with a lot of guys unfortunately Dirty Sanchez falls in this group, We all hate him at the POD because of the crap that the media crams down our gullets about how great he is(n’t). And before anyone say’s how can I put Vick in that group it’s easy (I hate him personally) but the guy just goes out and wins.
How many lumps you want Doc?
This crime should be punishable by death..... ;)
Rivers is a mouth-running whiny ass hat a la Cutler…..
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 18, 2011 2:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Cutler is such a bitch
There’s no comparison. Rivers tore his ACL & still played in the championship game. Jay did not.
13.
But Rivers likes to let everyone know...
what kind of a bitch he is. At least Jay isn’t out there running his mouth, he just pouts a lot.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 18, 2011 2:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Rivers doesn't talk that much
but, Jay Cutler is a a bigger bitch regardless of how much he talks.
13.
Well I don't think I'll disagree with that....
like you said, Rivers DID play through the ACL in the playoff game.
They spent the week after talking about him just like Cutler, but for the opposite reason.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 20, 2011 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Rodgers
Around here you gotta put Rodgers ahead of Brees. Or at least equal… Rodgers is every bit the QB that Brees is. As good a passer, leader, equal hardware. Rodgers is able to create plays w/ his feet, which Brees doesn’t do. And Rodgers is younger by 3 yrs. So he definitely gets the nod over Brees, IMO.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Brees
kinda made a run at Marino’s all-time record for most passing yards in a single season. His best statistical year (2009) is a little better than Rodgers’s (2009).
Not disagreeing with you, Stroh, I do think Rodgers is better, but there’s definitely an argument for Brees.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 18, 2011 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Same here.
Not disagreeing with you, Stroh, I do think Rodgers is better, but
one other thing Brees has that Rodgers doesn’t (and it has nothing to do with who is a better player, or better QB — a
Bart Starr Award.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
From
The Athletes in Action/Bart Starr Award was created to honor the NFL player who best exemplifies outstanding character and leadership in the home, on the field and in the community.I couldn’t help but notice that Eugene Robinson’s name was conspicuously missing from the list of past winners on the linked page. :D
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Are you kidding?
They took Eugene off the list just for soliciting prostitution? Imagine that… LOL
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
IIRC,
he did it on the night of the day he was presented with the award.
And he was married, I think.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
He was married
Pretty sure it was the nite before the SB or maybe the Fri before the SB. Not sure about the award and when it gets presented.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
That's the way I remember it.
The award was presented the morning of the day before the Super Bowl, and he got busted that night.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Meant to say
“that Rodgers doesn’t, yet”. :)
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
I would 100% take Rodgers over him in the future years
However over the past 3 years Brees has arguably been THE best QB in the league. He made every throw. I love Rodgers but man, Brees definitely did something amazing in NO. Rodgers took over a team that was already successful, Brees built that team from scratch. In the future though I think Rodgers will have better stats than Brees in almost every area.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Jun 20, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Brees built NO?
And here I thought it was the HC and GM that built the team. Huh. Brees is a great QB, no doubt, but there are a couple areas Rodgers is better. Keeping plays alive w/ his feet, and making plays w/ his feet and Rodgers has a much stronger arm! Accuracy, leadership and others all equal. Rodgers has those advantages, what does Brees have that Rodgers can’t do?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Some horrible stats
from some REALLY BAD San Diego teams from the beginning of the decade, I’d say…
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 20, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Just who does he think he is?
Brees built NO?
Brett Favre? :)
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Brees over Rodgers?
No way. What more has Brees done than Rodgers? Equal at worst, but Rodgers has the better upsde.
13.
Brees
has never been sacked 50 times in a season, for one. He made a major run at Dan Marino’s record for passing yards in a single season (eclipsing 5,000 yards in the process).
Head to head, Brees has passed for more yards than Rodgers over the past three regular seasons.
2008 Rodgers: 4,038 passing yards
2009 Rodgers: 4,434 passing yards
2010 Rodgers: 3,922 passing yards (with one game missed to injury)
2008 Brees: 5,069 passing yards
2009 Brees: 4,388 passing yards
2010 Brees: 4,620 passing yards
One thing that really helped Rodgers in 2008-09 was Ryan Grant. He was a fairly consistent, average ground threat. Drew Brees has never truly had that threat since arriving in New Orleans (not with Deuce McAllister getting injured, retiring, and Reggie Bush not exactly a top 15 pure rusher), and he essentially IS New Orleans’s offense.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 18, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Brees has also never had as poor of an OL that Rodgers had in 2009. In fact, he’s had one of the best OL’s in football to play behind for probably the best three or four years.
As for the passing yards a year stat, you can’t put too much into that. Yeah, Brees has a lot more yards per season but he also has attempted a lot more passes than Rodgers has in that 3 year span. By my count, Rodgers has attempted 1,551 passes in that 3 year span. Compared to Brees who has attempted 1,808 passes. You’ve got to take into account the Saints style of offense vs. ours too. They’re very much about the big play, and while we can be to at times, we are a west coast offense that relies pretty heavily on slants and quick timing routes.
That in itself helps boost Brees yards number every season.
And I’m sorry but what you say about both teams’ rushing the ball is just flat out wrong. In 2008, as a team, the Packers had 1,805 rushing yards on 437 carries. The Saints had 1,594 yards on 398 carries. That gives the Packers a 4.1 ypc vs. the Saints 4.0 ypc.
In 2009, the Packers had 1,885 yards on 438 carries. The Saints had 2,106 yards on 468 carries. So, we had a 4.2 ypc vs. their 4.6 ypc.
In 2010, the Packers had 1,606 yards on 421 carries. The Saints had 1,519 yards on 380 carries. That gives us a 3.8 ypc vs. the Saints 4.1 ypc.
If you really look at the numbers, the Saints have had an equal or better running game for the three years you listed. They just happen to run the ball 30-40 less times a year than we do because of our offense.
I think they’re pretty close to each other with Rodgers edging him out because of what he can do with his feet. Too me, their isn’t much difference between their throwing ability or leadership.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 18, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm taking Rodgers '08 out
Cuz he was a 1st year starter and clearly had alot to learn. In ’09 Brees had a RB committee of Pierre Thomas/Reggie Bush and they had a combined 1200 yds but Thomas the primary running threat average 5.4. The yards are the same as Grant, but the threat was much better. And Bush as a multi-dimentional threat puts alot more pressure on a D than Jackson.
Looking at QB rating.
Brees 09 109 QBR
10 90.9 QBR
Rodgers 09 103 QBR
10 101 QBR
So Brees had as good a run game as Grant in ‘09 and had a phenomenal year. Looking at ’10, when Rodgers was an experienced QB, and neither QB had a run game to speak of who carried his team? Brees’ rating fell to 91 while Rodgers still put up a healthy and consistent 101 QBR.
In addition I will add that Rodgfers is younger, more mobile and can make plays w/ his feet. WHile Brees, from what I’ve read, opponents are figuring out his arm isn’t as strong as it needs and are now playing everything short and giving him some deep routes, cuz the book is he doesn’t have the arm strength to challenge defenses vertically.
I’ll take Rodgers in ’10 and going forward!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I'd keep rogers in that talk Stroh
For his first year he was pretty impressive as a QB. And insertcreenname. . . I could not agree any harder than with what you said, I HATE dirty Sanchez but the NY media and all the dinks that are the so called experts are just in love with his sad azz.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Sanchez is in the 3rd tier?
Not even close. He’s not even the best QB on that roster.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 18, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Two of those
Id put Roethilsberger over both Rivers and Vick. The question is how do you measure success? The obvious answer is with the number of wins in both the regular season and post-season, as well as Super Bowl victories. Ben has them both beat in those categories. For all his passing stats, Rivers hasn’t won anything. Same with Vick.
Ben may not be your ideal/typical NFL QB, but his style works. I’d take Ben over both Rivers and Vick.
There again,
just looking at wins and titles is stupid to me. Those things need to be taken into consideration, but if that is your only argument I can’t have a discussion with you. I hate how that is the most common argument for ranking individual players. It shouldn’t be how many you’ve won but what you did on the field to get those wins. You have to factor in other things when talking about wins.
Am I the only one that thinks this way?
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Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
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Not at all
I don’t like using those stats (wins and titles) as a way to measure, rank, and compare players. The question is, how do you measure, rank, and compare players? Do you go off of individual stats, or team stats? Which individual or team stats do you use? How do you factor in how their scheme affected their performance? How do you factor in how talented the rest of their team is?
Obviously there is no right answer. Each position will have their own ways for comparing players. For a QB, the ultimate answer is the amount of wins (look at Marino). Yes, total yards and touchdown to interception ratio do matter a great deal; but if a QB has trouble winning games and no success in the post season, hes not gonna be remembered as one of the best. For better or worst, QB’s are described as team leaders. They are the first to receive credit for wins (like OMG, did you see that awesome last minute TD throw), and the first to receive blame for losses (I cant believe he missed those throws).
As far as for those 3 QB’s go, Id still go with Ben. There is no denying that Rivers is by far the better passer of the bunch, and Vick is by far more dynamic and a game changer (due to his dual threat status and new found abilities as a passer). But Ben combines those two traits and adds something else, he is tough to bring down and has a knack for big plays. How many 4th quarter comebacks has he had? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he leads the league in that category over the past few years. Sure he plays with a good running game, a great WR and TE, and a great defense. But that OL is nothing to write home about. If I needed a big play or drive to win a game, Ben is the QB I would want out of those three.
Sorry for the long post. I wont blame anybody if they didn’t read it all.
I use a heavy does of the eye-ball test, combined with his statistics. Then I look at his team and how successful it is. Then I look at the situation he’s in and try to determine how responsible he is for that success.
For example: I can’t watch Peyton Manning without thinking at least once or twice “Wow that guy is good.” Then I look at the stats and he definitely has those. Then I look at his team. That team is nowhere near as good as it has been the last several years with almost any other QB. Very little running game, often times a limited receiving corps, and a defense that has some good players but is far from dominant.
Very well-reasoned post BTW.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
The Colts wouldn't have made the playoffs the last several years
with any other QB than Peyton. He’s the top QB in the NFL right now, and it isn’t even close.
"I'm tired of pretending I'm not a rock star from Mars."
by Kuhl on Jun 8, 2011 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's not how you determine the best player,
That’s how you work out the strength of the rest of the team.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 8, 2011 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep.
The Colts live and die with Peyton Manning. They don’t have a bona fide RB the way they did with Edgerrin James back in the early part of the decade; Addai’s good but there’s a ton of “meh” riding the bench behind him.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 8, 2011 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions
True
but tell me who else could lead THAT Colts team to a winning record. I’d say Brady, Brees, and Rodgers but that’s it.
I think he’s the best QB in the league due to how he reads defenses. No one else does that as well as he does
"I'm tired of pretending I'm not a rock star from Mars."
Manning is the de-facto offensive coordinator.
He is heavily involved in game plans, the structure of the offense, teaching it in the offseason, leading drills… Not to mention calling plays on game day. No other QB is given that kinda authority in the NFL. Not Brady, Rodgers or Brees. His failings in the offseason are the only thing keeping me from naming him by far the best QB in the NFL today. I have Manning, Brady and Rodgers all on the same level right now, and can’t say which I would take, except that Rodgers is MY QB and would take him beyond one season.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
So Rodgers, Brady, Brees don't call their own plays, or have input in the gameplan?
Every competent QB does. Even some of the incompetent ones, too.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 9, 2011 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Not to the degree Manning has.
Rodgers, Brees and others can change plays and in specific situation can call the plays. Manning calls ALL the INDY plays! Manning is HEAVILY involved in gameplanning. Others have input. BIG difference!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Easiest job in the NFL
Clyde Christensen – OC Colts
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
"Only a real man quotes himself in the 3rd person" - Nate D. circa 2011
Easiest job in the NFL
Backup QB to Peyton Manning.
"I'm tired of pretending I'm not a rock star from Mars."
Okay,
No convincing you that Rodgers or Brees or Brady know what they want on their sheets for a certain opponent.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 9, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
That's not what he's saying
Of course every QB has input into the offense. The difference is the Manning has near total control over the play calls for that offense. He calls most plays at the line and makes more audibles than any QB I’ve ever seen. He is the smartest QB in the NFL and he has an incredible arm too.
"I'm tired of pretending I'm not a rock star from Mars."
by Kuhl on Jun 9, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
They all make audibles, then.
Except for Sanchez, every QB comes to the line with at least two plays. They then have to run the best one according to what they see on the field.
Manning just does it by waving his arms around like a seagull and running around like an idiot (he’s not, but he sure can look like one).
The no-huddle everyone runs is based on the QB being able to put the others in the correct spots. And Manning is definitely not the first QB to use that as a base.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 9, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
You’re not listening. Manning has total control over that offense. I’ve heard he goes to the line with 3 or 4 plays, and decides which one he wants to run. And this is something that he does EVERY play. No other QB does that.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 9, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
What is it you don't understand?
Manning is the playcaller for the team. He doesn’t even have plays called in to him from the sidelines. All other QB’s have plays called to them by the HC or OC, Not Manning. He calls ALL the plays. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, et al, have the called in and then IF the situation calls for it, they can change run to pass or completely audible. Manning is different… He IS the playcaller! Every down, every play, the game is in his hands to call the plays as he sees fit. No other QB has complete control of calling all the plays, whether at the LOS or in the huddle.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Doesn't he even switch to the no huddle....
on his own at times if he feels like it will work and then basically run it until it scores or they have to kick it away?
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 9, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
He controls that entire offense from eveything I’ve read, heard or seen. Given his playcalling, he is even in charge of substitutions dependent on the play call.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
He truly is a coach on the field.
He does so much more than just play quarterback. While Aaron Rodgers is an exceptional quarterback, Peyton is currently re-writing what that job description will entail in the future. What he does now is what will be expected in the next generation of quarterbacks. He will be the measuring stick against which future quarterbacks will be tried and tested.
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
"Only a real man quotes himself in the 3rd person" - Nate D. circa 2011
Doesnt that make him Old School?
Cuz going back to the 70’s QB’s did alot of the things Manning does now. QB’s used to be in complete contol of calling plays, etc. I don’t think it will happen too much. HC are far to much control freaks to hand over play calling to the QB’s. Manning is in a unique position, that won’t be seen again for awile IMO.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I'm completely on board with everything you just wrote.
I just have a feeling we’re going to see alot of failed Peyton clones in years to come. Complete meltdowns by QB’s given that kind of control that they can’t handle. It’ll probably go without saying that every new QB that shows promise will be “The Next Peyton Manning”
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
"Only a real man quotes himself in the 3rd person" - Nate D. circa 2011
Are you referring to Andrew Luck by any chance?
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Pretty much
Doesnt that make him Old School?
what I was going to say.
Peyton is currently re-writing what that job description entailed back in the day.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
I was talking about this with Colts fans at Stampede Blue.
They’re adamant Manning still gets plays in his ear from the OC. He can then change it depending on what he sees at the line. Something most QBs can do, and something most have the authority to do. Manning’s the only guy who jumps around waving his arms.
Brady’s audibles are more about finding the receiver with the favourable matchup on the field, and then giving him the best route. Manning’s audibles are more route-combination-based, where he finds the best routes (generally forcing a safety or CB to commit to one player out of two choices) and then throws it to the more open guy. That probably necessitates more detail in the signals, but most of what he does is based on misdirection. No QB is going to fake snap 4 times, changing the play between each one. That’s purely for the defense.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 10, 2011 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep
He apparently gets three options from the OC, and chooses what he sees as the best. Then he can shuffle his calls around to fit if he doesn’t like what he sees. He’s not making up playcalls on the spot from the entire playbook on every snap – he’s picking the best from the three that the OC gives him based on how the OC sees down, distance, personnel and risk.
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by Comedic.Sans on Jun 10, 2011 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Manning runs the show in a completely different way than all the other QBs out there. Gotta side with Stroh here. What Manning does on the field is unlike what any other modern QB has done.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Agree...
and it’s much, much more than just play calling during the game. We have all seen that he basically runs the offensive practices. He should probably be paid the OCs salary in addition to his own. There is no other QB who has the complete control of his offense like Peyton.
"Believe me Delmar, woman is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man."
However,
I don’t know if those facts alone make him the best QB right now. It’s really hard to compare given the team that Peyton does not have around him.
"Believe me Delmar, woman is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man."
"He should probably be paid the OC's salary . . ."
Oh, don’t worry, he will. And he’ll supplement that income with a few ads, too. In fact, there’s about a 40% chance that Manning is filming an ad at this very moment.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 10, 2011 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Only 40%??
I guess he is coming off neck surgery right now…
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 11, 2011 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you're operating under the assumption that Manning does all the playcalls
He doesn’t. The Colts OC calls in three options to Manning, and Manning goes to the line juggling only those three. He can then switch between them as he sees it on the line. If none of them fit what he’s seeing, sure, he can audible way out and go back to a stock-standard audibled call, but that’s rare – it’s only if the D is showing something exotic that none of his plays can account for.
Most of the time, he picks the play that fits from the three the OC presents him as options given the down, distance, field position and game situation. It’s not like he’s making up plays from the whole playbook on a down by down basis on the fly.
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Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 10, 2011 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Still alot more than what Rodgers gets in freedom.
Rodgers is given the play call and depending on how the box is stacked has an automatic audible to a run or pass. So say a run is called, but the D has 7 or 8 in the box, then he has the built in Pass audible. He doesn’t even call that audible from a list of choices. Its an auto-audible mostly based on whats in the box. Obviously if its a way different D than expected, he can go away from the play call. But he is also expected to get them into the very best play call and is graded on how he audibles/changes any plays.
Manning still has FAR more freedom to change plays or call them as he sees fit.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I know EXACTLY what Manning does out there. I think most of us have watched Colts games and have been made aware of what he does. Thanks for the education though…I know Patriots fans are always looking for ways to discredit Manning and promote Brady.
So how does any of that change things. Brady doesn’t do that. Rodgers doesn’t do it. Favre never did it. Marino didn’t do it. Montana didn’t do it. So you can try to talk him down as much as you want but the point remains he does a LOT more than any other QB in the modern era.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Right. All you’ve gotta do is watch him play and it’s obvious that he’s doing things that nobody else is. He’s as physically skilled (throwing wise) as any QB in the league but what really puts him over the top is the mental aspect of it. The way he manipulates defenses is unreal. People can rip him all they want for all the “running around” and “the arm motions” but the bottom line is that it works. How many times does he get a defense to essentially show him what they’re going to do?
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 12, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
How many times does he get a defense to essentially show him what they’re going to do?
MY guess is that by the time the ball is snapped Manning knows precisely what the D is doing and has the team in the right play for that D and situation.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Like any great QB?
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 13, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Most QB's
Find out after the snap what the D is going to do. Manning gets them to reveal BEFORE the snap.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
On some plays, sure.
The rest of the time he’s doing what any great QB does, and confirms what he thought was going to happen by what did happen. That’s usually the case when a QB throws to his first read.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 13, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would say...
Manning does it pre-snap on most plays, whereas other QB’s have to find out post-snap. Manning is just on another level that no other QB can touch in that regard.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Yep. And like you said above, very few QB’s get the defense to show where they’re coming from before the snap. Maybe ever once in a while but not nearly as much as Manning does.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 13, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree.
Its not even kinda close. If there was a QB pageant, he’d place first, second and fourth. Manning is absolutely ridiculous. Chuck Norris once lost a fight to Peyton. I hate the guy, but there is no doubt in my mind he is the best now and possibly the best there ever was. It actually physically hurts my brain trying to understand any argument to the contrary.
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
"Only a real man quotes himself in the 3rd person" - Nate D. circa 2011
The plethora of defensive TDs he threw last year.
I don’t think that’s what the best QB EVER should be doing. That’s what Favre did, and we HATED it when he did that.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 8, 2011 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
He was playing with what was basically a practice squad. And he still managed to lead his team to the playoffs. Not too mention that their defense was ridiculously soft too. There just isn’t anybody that reads defenses the way he does. Everything that offense does is literally because of him.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 8, 2011 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe one of the problems for the defense
was that the offense insisted on putting the defense on the field over and over again with terrible turnovers? Manning had 17 INTs, after all.
Putting an already-weak defense on a short field against any offense is not a success strategy.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 8, 2011 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Time of possession was a problem for Indy also wasn't it?
Their D isn’t built to be on the field so quickly again or for long drives.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
They run a Tampa-2,
the whole point of that D is to make the other team put together long drives. Works when you’re up 31-14, not so good when you’re down 31-14 and the Colts need the ball back.
Plus the Manning quick-strike thing means they try to be back on the field quickly. That’s why they’re all about 10 lbs lighter than other defensive players around the league, and that’s why they suffer crucial injuries on D.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 9, 2011 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions
They have a REALLY small DL.
I know a typical Tampa 2 is supposed to force the offense to go the length of the field. But the Indy D, bucuz they are so small, especially up front, isn’t built to be on the field for long stretches. And I don’t think they have the depth on DL to rotate guys alot and stay fresh.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
They can stay on the field when they can force the other team to throw it 50 times a game.
That’s on the Colts offense scoring enough points early to force the other team to play catch-up.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 9, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
He threw 17 INTs in 679 pass attempts. That’s an interception on 2.5% of his throws! For comparison, Rodgers threw an interception on 2.3% of his throws. My point is, 17 INTs isn’t a lot for the amount of passes he attempted. And then when you take into account that he had a horrid OL in front of him, basically a bunch of practice squad RB’s to work with, and some practice squad receivers to work with, those 17 INTs (compared to 33 TDs BTW) don’t look so bad.
Oh, and the most passes he’s ever attempted in a season prior to last was 591. The guy literally put the entire team on his back and carried them to the playoffs.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 9, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
And he flamed out in the playoffs
because his body had to have been exhausted. His receivers were crappy (Garcon and Wayne had ridiculous drop percentages); he lost Dallas Clark about halfway through the season and his best contributing running back (Addai) for a long, long stretch.
While his interception percentage was low, at the end of the day, he threw more interceptions returned for touchdowns than almost any QB I saw. Just as easily as he could win games, he could lose them too.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 9, 2011 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
So you're saying . . .
He’s a Gunslinger?
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 9, 2011 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m not really sure what point he is trying to make.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 9, 2011 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh Stroh. You couldn't be further off.
Since this conversation never made any sense, I’m tuning out of it.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 9, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
excuses
1. his body had to have been exhausted
2. receivers were crappy
3. he lost Dallas Clark
4. lost Addai for a long stretch
Just what it sounds like to me…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
But then he went on and blamed him for losing games.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
I was just trying
to make a Favre joke. I have no horse in this race, I just think that that argument falls perilously close to the Favre-apologist line. But there is something to be said for the ability to win games, just as there is something to be said for costing a team a game.
All in all, I think it’s really hard to say how effective Manning’s decision are. We don’t know what the o-coordinator is thinking, we don’t know what the d is trying to do, etc. etc. It’s almost impossible to really know how successful his playcalls really are.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 9, 2011 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess my point is, this is really the only season that Manning has struggled with turnovers (since his earlier seasons). And even in doing so, he still put the team on his back and carried them as far as he could without receiving any help.
It seems like OB is saying that Manning is good, but not the best because he throws too many interception/pick 6’s. But that’s just how I’m interpreting it. I really am not sure if I’m right or not and that’s why I didn’t respond to his comment.
But if that is what he’s saying, my response would be that it’s pretty safe to assume that a lot of those turnovers came from him trying to do too much due to not having really any help at all around him.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 9, 2011 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
My opinion about Manning
Is Manning is far to pass oriented. He needs a run game to take pressure off himself and the Defense. He’s been great at carrying that team as far as he can, but has really not given the run game the work it needs. I think he is now trying to do far too much on his own and dropping back to throw. No doubt a great QB, but I think its actually time to move away from relying on Manning so much. I realize the Colts run game has been pretty bad, but he just doesn’t stick w/ it as much as he needs to.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
You do realise that Manning makes the playcalls, right?
His OC gives him three options, of which he chooses one. And even then, he can audible out into another play as need be.
If he passes 50 times a game, it’s because he chooses too.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 10, 2011 6:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Thats what I'm saying.
He CHOOSES to pass far too often! Sometimes you need to run the ball even if the D is expecting it. Keep them honest, you know?!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
He did a great job of that in the game against the Giants.
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
"Only a real man quotes himself in the 3rd person" - Nate D. circa 2011
Yeah, probably. But what was he supposed to do this past season? He had Addai out, Brown out, Hart out, and James as a starter (who was a UDFA). And he had OL hurt, and even the guys who were healthy were pretty bad. It’d be hard to really commit to a run game, when you’re going for no gain a lot of the time.
But again, this past year was different simply because of all the injuries they had. I think all of them put him in a position where he literally had to do it all. Had he had Clark, Garcon, and Collie, along with Addai healthy, I don’t think we would have seen him try and force it as much.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 10, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
This year
He was definitely hurt by all the injuries. But I will say I’ve thought this for a couple years, now. Addai had that one great year, but since then the run game in Indy seems to have faded away. Be interesting to see if he has everyone healthy for a change.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Addai
is the best all-around back the Colts have. His injuries did NOT help the running game; while Javarris James and Mike Hart got playing time, they are not exactly world-beaters. Donald Brown has ONE aspect of his game that’s good. ONE. Other than that, he could be a spectacular bust.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 10, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Brown
Yeah I never really got the Brown pick. He was talked up alot, but I didn’t see him as a 1st round RB. He’s just not special in ANY way. And if I’m drafting a RB in the 1st he better be special at a couple things. Clearly Addai is the best they have, but since his one really good year, he’s been either ineffective or hurt or both.
They DO need to get a better running game if they are ever going to challenge for a SB title again. Don’t have to be great, but consistent and keep D’s honest for Manning and keep the D off the field a liittle more.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
He had Addai out, Brown out, Hart out, and James as a starter (who was a UDFA).
Run it. Both the Pats RBs were UDFAs. Hell, Danny Woodhead was a pickup during the season.
The Pats had Maroney out, Faulk out, Taylor out, Morris effectively out, and were relying on their 5th string RB (UDFA) and a free agent pickup RB (UDFA). But they ran.
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by Comedic.Sans on Jun 10, 2011 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
James wasn’t the kind of player that any of the Pats RB’s were though (talent wise imo). Belicheck’s kinda like Thompson, in that he can find UDFA’s who fit his system and excel, where a lot of GM’s need a higher draft pick to do so.
They also had a much better OL imo. The Colts OL was pretty much worthless, both in the running and passing game. I watched games where Manning did try to get the run game going a bit, and it just wasn’t gonna happen.
Though, I do agree with Stroh that at times he gets a bit to pass happy.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 11, 2011 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions
James wasn’t the kind of player that any of the Pats RB’s were though (talent wise imo).
Not sure about that – Javarris James was the 6th RB on the Patriots roster before he was cut pre-season and signed by the Colts. If the Pats had known that Fred Taylor, Kevin Faulk and Laurence Maroney were all going to be lame, sick and dying, they’d have likely kept Baby J.
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Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 11, 2011 2:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Then why wasn’t he kept over guys like Green-Ellis and Woodhead?
You just can’t compare the Patriots running game to the Colts running game. Their offensive line is probably top 10 while the Colts is easily bottom 5.
And the fact that the Pats use a lot more tight end heavy formations, while the Colts almost always come out in 211 or shotgun personnel.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 12, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
no horse in this race
If we were talking about Vick, instead of Manning, the expression would be …
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
I see what you did there
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 10, 2011 6:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not overly impressed with Roethlisberger
The Steelers won their first Super Bowl in spite of him (you could argue his receivers had a better passing game than he did). In their second Super Bowl he did lead the game-winning drive, but against a pretty poor Arizona defense that he really should have had a better game against (and got a defensive score from Harrison). In the game against the Packers he played pretty poorly until Woodson (and Shields, temporarily) was out of the game.
Also, their o-line was pretty good in his first Super Bowl, mediocre in his second, and poor in the third – but going up against a team with a poor o-line as well. He’s had good WRs and great defenses, and great coaches.
He makes some great, highlight reel plays, but makes an equal number of bad plays and takes too many sacks. I guess one way to measure a QB is to think about what other QBs would do with the same surrounding cast. And in Roethlisberger’s case I don’t think he measures up well to Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, or the new Vick.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 7, 2011 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
How about Rodgers?
And I lean toward your side of this argument. I don’t think he’s quite as good as he’s made out to be. He’s a very good player, but not in the top tier.
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Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
I'm a little biased towards Rodgers
So of course I see him as top tier, ahead of Roethlisberger and Co. Once he’s had a few more years of winning under his belt we’ll know. The reason I, in all my bias, consider him ahead of Roethlisberger is because of his performance against Atlanta and in the Super Bowl. He clearly outplayed Roethlisberger in the big game. If we continue to have top-5 defenses then I expect that he’ll win another Super Bowl, but of course that remains to be seen.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 8, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Rodgers is Top Tier.
His stats the past 3 seasons had him in the conversation. But behind Brady, Manning Brees at least. But this past post-season elevated him to the top tier of Brady and Manning and like ahead of Brees and others by most accounts. Thats about as top tier as it gets… When your in the conversation for the best QB in the game you have to be rated that highly. Performing on the highest stage the game offers has a tendency to do that for you!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Jun 8, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's *just* behind Brees, IMO.
A super season from Rodgers and a poor one from Brees, and they probably swap spots. The rate Manning’s sliding, Rodgers could even jump him for #2.
If Brady plays like last season, he’s first by a long way. If he plays well, and Manning doesn’t, he separates himself some more.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 9, 2011 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions
At the very least Rodgers and Brees are equals.
No way I put Rodgers behind Brees. Prior to last year, that was fair, but after Rodgers season and post-season in ’10, they have to be equals!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Jun 9, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe.
Brees still put up huge numbers in the Seattle loss. 40/60, 400 yards, 2 TDs with RBs pulled out of the Qwest Field crowd? Not exactly Cutler, he did everything he could to win that game.
He gets the nod purely because he’s done it longer than Rodgers. That will probably change this year (unless Brees goes back to 09 form).
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 9, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
That's tough
Brees won a Super Bowl with a defense that was vastly inferior to the defense the Packers put on the field last year. On the other hand, Brees has a very good offensive line. And Rodgers is more mobile.
Tie goes to the Packer! (my rule)
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 9, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
lol
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 9, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Rivers
Not in a conversation of the best QB in the game, the elite QB’s. He doesn’t have the hardware! I put him at 6 among QB’s.
Top tier are: Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees
Next tier: Roethlesberger, Rivers,
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Stroh
I may not like Ben but does he not have more rings than all of your top tier QB’s other than Brady. And he has done it with 1 of the worst O-lines in the game the past few years.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Hardware isn't the only criteria.
Gotta have one to be among the elite. After that your ability as a passer, leadership and the ability to carry your team if you have to. Ben hasn’t had to carry his team like the other top QB’s and he’s not the pure passer the other top guys are. His 2 rings puts him above Rivers tho. A QB w/ 3 rings is automatic. We’ll see about Rivers and Roelthesberger moving up. That how I rank them now.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Roethlisberger's o-line
Was pretty good in his first Super Bowl, middle-of-the pack in his second (against a weak defense), and horrible in his third. No coincidence that he didn’t win this time around.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 17, 2011 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Pitts OL
Wasn’t why the Packers beat them. They didn’t have an answer to the Packers passing game. We didn’t really dominate the LOS against them or pressure Ben into submission. THe great play by Green on Collins INT notwithstanding.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
But our o-line gave Rodgers enough time to make throws
while Pittsburgh’s line allowed us to get pressure with minimal blitzing.
My point is that Roethlisberger isn’t good enough to beat a D by himself, while Rodgers is so accurate and quick that it didn’t matter that the Steelers had Harrison and Woodley crashing the edges.
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by I voted for Kodos on Jun 18, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
So we agree
Rodgers is the better QB… I wasn’t saying Ben was better just pointing out some things to consider about Ben as a QB. I don’t think we got alot of pressure on Ben, probably not even enough to really bother him overall…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I can agree with you on the reply Stroh
Rogers was the Packers Offense last few years actually. I know we saw how good that offense was when Rogers got knocked out of the Detroit game last year. Rogers is 1 of the top 5 no doubt about it. But I still have him as a second tier guy. Like you said thou give him a few more years and we shall see he could very well have a few more rings. (I’m hoping not cause then my Lions will still be looking up at you guys) lol. And like you guys said BEN had really nothing to do with that first ring that was all on the rushing attack and D that year. Frankly I still hate Ben
How many lumps you want Doc?
If your 1st tier is
Brady and Manning only, the Rodgers can be considered 2nd tier. If you include any other QB to be in the 1st tier it HAS to be Rodgers! Look at his ‘10 season… No run game like Brees and he still had a 101 QBR as compared to Brees w/o a run game at 91. Brees might get better volume numbers, but Rodgers played better on equal terms as Brees last year. Certainly Ben and Rivers aren’t ahead of Rodgers!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
The only reason I put Brees in that top tier
Is this: He was not just a flash in the pan since he got to N.O. he was putting up some sick numbers in SD as well. Now yeah he was benefiting from a young LT in SD but he still put up really good numbers for quiet a few years now not just counting his Saints years. And don’t take me wrong here, Rogers is on the cusp of moving into that top tier he just needs another year or two to be considered by the entire NFL as that top guy. NFC North fans (outside of chicago) have probably thought he has been since his first year as the starter. Didn’t he just miss out on the playoffs his first year as a starter by like 1 game maybe 2 ? And he has taken the next step up the ladder every year since, but he is 1 or 2 years away from being considered that top dog by the entire NFL fandom. I know you guys won the SB but Rogers has not even won the division yet(not that it makes a difference 2nd twice and 6-10 his first year i had to go check)That’s all I’m trying to say, I could see his first year as starter that he was going to be a damn good QB, and I think you all could also.
How many lumps you want Doc?
It's odd
That you guys at least allow me to have my thoughts on here without that T word and when I was at the Saints blog site the year they won it all, All I said was he was a top 4 QB not “the best” because of Brady and Manning and they all called me a troll over there.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Funny
Apparently having the best QB rating ever BOTH in regular season AND postseason, having the best 2 first years any QB has ever had, having the single best postseason QB performance of all time and being named SB MVP in only his 3rd year in the league aren’t enough to put him in the so-called “top tier”.
Guess it’s more about longevity than production… Which Rodgers has no control over. Fact is, nobody has been a better QB for the period Rodgers has been active as a starter. Not a single QB has accomplished as much and performed as well as Rodgers over that period.
"IT IS TIME"
You answered for me.
2 year period of time. sorry but 2 years of work does not get any QB into the top tier, or for that matter 2 years of work does not get anyone into any top tier at any position. Terrel Davis was THE BEST RB for a couple of years, did that make him a greatest of all time? I am not arguing Rogers arm or anything like that, just saying he needs at least 1 or 2 more years at the same level or higher to be considered in the same breath as a Manning or Brady, that’s all I’m saying. Is it Bree’s fault he has a better running game? NO. Did everyone consider Marino one of the top tier QB’s in the game after his 3rd year? NO it took a period of about 4 or 5 years for him to get that recognition. I understand your love for Rogers and he is literally on the cusp, but it takes more than a couple of years to get to the top of the QB mountain.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Same was said about Manning and he threw for over 4000 yards in his second season.
But you didn’t hear everyone say he was a top tier QB after his 3rd year either.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Not only that, but
Same was said about Manning and he threw for over 4000 yards in his second season. But you didn’t hear everyone say he was a top tier QB after his 3rd year either.
Manning didn’t have a SB or SB MVP did he?!
in Mannings first season, he threw a league-leading 28 interceptions and had a 71.2 passer rating, while the Colts went 3-13.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Sorry But Rodgers has done everything needed to be Top Tier!
He’s performed at a consistently elite QB level for 3 straight years. He’s won a SB and SB MVP. He’s the first NFL QB to pass for 4000 yds in his 1st 2 seasons as a starter and it would have been 3 but for missing 1 1/2 games. His QB rating is the best in NFL history in both the regular season and Post-season! Simply put there is nothing more he could have done and he’s already accomplished everything. And as much or more than Brees! Another year of 2 isn’t going to change what he has accomplished already! He already IS a Top Tier NFL QB!
And RIGHT now as we speak Rodgers is better than Brees! Time to end this or it might get testy! Let it end…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I mispelled
3 years, not 2.
How many elite years did Brees had again?
He had a lot of good/very good years.
And throwing for 4000 yards has nothing to do with being elite or not.
"IT IS TIME"
Right, I mean it’s good but it’s not really hard to do or something. There’s probably 8-10 guys who do that, or come very close to doing it every year.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 19, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Last year
There were 5 QB’s who threw for 4000 yds, but 8 that threw for 3900. After those 8 guys, no one had much more than 3700. This year Palmer won’t go for that amount, but Ryan, Bradford and Freeman could step up to that level. So it could be as many as 10 this year, but probably more like 8 or 9. Good guesswork…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Can't say I agree with this.
Guess it’s more about longevity than production…
Sure, Rodgers only has three top-tier-level productive years, and if he had a fourth year as a starter, which was mediocre or worse, along with all of the things you mention,
the best QB rating ever BOTH in regular season AND postseason, having the best 2 first years any QB has ever had, having the single best postseason QB performance of all time and being named SB MVP(add to that, the way he handled succeeding a legend, and the extra madness that Bertt threw on top of that) pressure, then it might be different.
But, Aaron has done all that he has from the beginning of his time as a starter, while showing no signs of giving any reason to think that it won’t continue.
I would argue that Rodgers is past the point of having to prove that he is a top tier QB, and to the point where he would have to have some Cutler/Romo-like seasons to show that he isn’t.
I’d say that he has now done enough to where you can’t just assume that, anymore.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Rogers is on the cusp of moving into that top tier
For the last time, Rodgers is NOT on the cusp! He IS in the the 1st tier of QB’s w/ Brady and Manning! And if you wanna put Brees in that tier thats fine, but he simply is not a better QB than Rodgers right now! He’s not outperformed Rodgers in any way, shape or form. When both had good teams around them and no run game to speak of Rodgers had a 101 QBR and Brees had a 91 QBR. Rodgers is better w/ his feet, as accurate, as good a leader, and has a better arm! If you wanna put them on equal terms I can understand, but honestly Rodgers is the better QB right now.
End of discussion!!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I think Rodgers got in with the Super Bowl win...
it was the only thing that most “experts” agreed that he needed after all those stat years. Brees I would put there too, since he never seems to have a bad year.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 18, 2011 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Im sorry to say this but
There is just no way you can say that Rogers is a good a leader as Brees he may be good but Brees is one of the VERY BEST in the league few guys are on his level. Rogers is very acurate but to say he is on Brees’ level already when he has done is for much more time is also premature (IMO). Also the whole Rogers has the highest passer rating thing is not really a valid argument. He has only played for 3 years so if he plays well for those years his rating will be high. Look at what Brady did in his first couple of postseaons he was undefeated and didn’t throw a lot of picks so he had a great rating but once he played longer the numbers evened back out. Give it more time then make these arguments.
We are taught from an early age how to deal with failure not success. (If at first you don't succeed try try again, if at first you succeed then what....) -Charlie Sheen
I come ready, when I came out the womb I was ready, tell them mama that's why you had me, you knew I was ready. -Moss
Dominating your opposition physically is great and all, but confounding them mentally is sooo much more fun.
Im not racist and I don't discriminate, I stereotype; its faster
I call them april babies because they fools -lil wayne
Just cuz Brees get alot of credit for becoming a leader in NO community doesn’t make him a great leader. He is a great leader but he get far too much credit cuz of those things. Rodgers handled the entire Favre fiasco w/ class and leaderhip. Which is better? Both great IMO.
You won’t find a more accurate passer than Rodgers. I could see him hitting 70% completions if he didn’t go deep quite a bit. Brees doesn’t go downfield nearly as much as Rodgers.
Rodgers has gotten better every year under center. Its not like he’s going to regress. He might level off in another year or two.
Rodgers has done every thing Brees has in a shorter period of time!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
This is bunk!
Also the whole Rogers has the highest passer rating thing is not really a valid argument. He has only played for 3 years so if he plays well for those years his rating will be high.
The reason that the NFL has set a standard for minimum attempts (1,500 regular season,and 150 post-season – both of which Rodgers has exceeded) to qualify for passing records is to debunk arguments like this!
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
by NorthStarr on Jun 21, 2011 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree with the rankings,
But I have some more distinct groupings.
1 – Brady, Manning
Rodgers could join this group, but it’s a 1st ballot HOF career to do so
2 – Brees, Rodgers
Daylight
3 – Rivers, Schaub, Romo, Rapistberger, Vick (if he continues to pass like last year), Palmer (if the SD game is a good indication of what he can still do)
4 – Ryan, Flacco, Cutler, Cassel, Manning, Orton, Freeman
Bradford should be the next guy up into one of these groups.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 18, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
For Rogers to have the stats that he has in his first 3 years
And 1 would only think he will get better, he could/should be a first ballot guy when his playing days are done;assuming his career isn’t cut short with concussions or some freaky injury that NO ONE wishes on any guy playing the sport we all love.Even i na division that features 2 other top notch D’s, hooping my Lions make it a 3rd, Rogers seems to have the same "Joe “Cool” Montana" quality about him, he just never seems to be rattled out there no matter what the situation is.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Biggest thing I am worried about with him....
is not that he will ever play poorly but that he will have a career cut short by concussions.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 18, 2011 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
That's an issue, certainly,
But everyone is a LT-Theismann away from not playing again.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Jun 19, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Well no
Rivers puts up amazing stats, but he’s an asshole who benefits from having one of the greatest TEs in NFL History (Antonio Gates). He could very well be the next Dan Marino (player who puts up amazing stats but never wins a title. Ever.)
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 17, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll give you that.
I don’t personally like Rivers but he does put up the stats. And Can you really talk about Gates since he has been hurt the past few years? Turf toes 2 years in a row I believe and maybe a hammy in 1 other.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Gates might be on the injury list every week
but he manages to find his way to paydirt.
http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=GAT194627
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 17, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats for sure.
I love the guy fantasy wise. ah maybe I should have put that a different way.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I would have,
instead of typing that last part and clicking the post button.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
"I love the guy fantasy wise"
and that sounded a little weird too! =P
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 18, 2011 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember a season
when Sterling Sharpe never practiced during the season, due to turf toe.
Yet, he always played in the games, and usually produced.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Woodson has problems w/ a big toe too...
Not sure its turf toe, but similar I think.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Good question
Ben has two rings with that defense, but I do wonder how many Brady or Manning would have by now with that same D. And like you said, Ben’s style of QB play leads to a lot of big plays and highlight reel plays, but it also leads to too many sacks.
But what about Rivers? He has had a strong defense and offense, but his team has faltered the past few years. It seems like every year they start out slow, and have to win out to make the playoffs. Rivers is the better pure QB, but he doesn’t win enough for me. Let me ask you this, how would Rodgers be rated as a QB if we lost in Atlanta?
As for Vick, I can’t put him ahead of Ben for one good/great year of QB play. Give me another year or two, a few playoff wins, and then I’ll move him ahead of Ben. But one good year does not make a great QB. Would you take the Vick of old over Ben?
So obivously chuck and Aaron will be up there.
But I can’t think of who the 7th player is. Tramon? Sitton?
All is vanity.
The Mighty Thor
If I didn't know better, I'd think the Brewers were a halfway decent baseball team...
I really wish you would stop posting these...
I get mad every time I look at it and the list is obviously a joke.
SUPER BOWL CHAMPS
I've gone this far, so I might as well see it through.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
FTFY
the list is obliviously a joke.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
I bet Manning and Rodgers are 1 and 2
I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow
I think it's already been revealed that Rodgers is 11
or is it 9? I forget which one. Either way, he’s not #2
13.
11
I’m not sure when this poll was conducted. It could have been before the playoff run.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Not a chance he’s number 1 or 2. Not yet.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Soon enough though. He just seems to keep getting better and better. It’ll be scary to see how good he is after some more experience.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 12, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
3 years from now
Manning and Brady will be hanging on and in decline and Rodgers at age 30 will be THE pre-eminent QB in the NFL. I honestly don’t see another QB currently in the NFL that has Rodgers combination of physical talent, mental capacity and desire to be the best! Luck is a college Sr and he MIGHT have some of those gifts, but he will be a full 5-7 years behind in development. So he might be who takes over Rodgers throne. Just pray that Rodgers doesn’t succumb to any outside trappings or injury.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Devin Hester at #32, Jonathon Vilma at #37....
I didn’t think this list could get any worse…..but there you go.
Hester no, Vilma yes.
Vilma was pretty solid this year, forcing three fumbles and a career-best 4 sacks. Without Vilma, New Orleans’s D would be much, much worse off.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 13, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Vilma
Is among the best MLB in the NFL. Just behind Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis. IMO, not far behind Urlacher. He is strictly a 43 MLB for some reason he didn’t play well when he was stuck in a 34 for a year or two. Hester isn’t on the list as a WR, he’s on it as a return man and playmaker.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Yes, Hester is the best return man in the game
That doesn’t make him the 32nd best overall player.
Put it this way: If the only way you can really make an impact on a game is if a punter doesn’t kick the ball the way he wants to, you are not a top 40 player in the NFL. If he was actually a decent receiver, I could see him up high. But he is crap. Really fast crap, but still crap.
by Packers3485 on Jun 14, 2011 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think he is 32nd overall
But in the top 100 I can easily see that. I agree the ranking is to high, but he deserves to be on the list IMO. And if he were a better reciever, your right, 32 would be more fitting.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Wait until they put Ray Lewis in the top 5
Ray Lewis is one of the best linebackers ever, but he’s not even a top 5 LB nowadays. I’d take Willis, Matthews, Ware, Harrison, Mayo, Briggs, Timmons, Woodley… Before I take Ray Lewis, if we’re talking about the 2011 season.
"IT IS TIME"
Ware, Harrison, Matthews, and Woodley are completely different players at LB
than Ray Lewis. They’re OLBs, not ILBs.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 13, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Putting everything together
Who would you rather have for the 2011 season? Because IMHO that’s what’s in question here, when ranking the top 100 players of 2011.
Do you think they’re better defensive players, or players, than Lewis? Do you think, at their respective positions, they’re better than Lewis right now?
"IT IS TIME"
As just a player.
Lewis isn’t as great he once was, but he is still great. AND he is still the heart and soul of his team and an extremely strong leader who brings toughness and tenacity that very few LB’s can come close to matching. Taking everything into account Lewis is still easily among the best at his position.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Totally agreed
His play has dropped a bit but not a whole lot imo. And you touched on the leadership he brings, which might be the best of anybody in the NFL. How long has that Ravens defense been among the best in the league? I think a large part of that is his leadership and the way he plays. When you see a guy out there giving it everything he’s got it’s contagious.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jun 13, 2011 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Apparently Calvin Johnson is rated the #4 WR in the NFL
And in the middle of 21-30. I know us over at P.O.D have him rated higher, homers, but I’d like to see someone else’s insight on this. We all know this list is pretty terrible, (Hester at 32?) but still, thoughts from people other than Lion’s fans would be nice.
I'm glad they made Flintstone's vitamins because I used to watch The Flintstones and go, "Man I bet you if I ate that dude, I would be healthy."
Probably about right.
I would put Fitz and Andre Johnson ahead of Megatron. After that it would be difficult to put anyone else above him. Can’t think off the top of my head who might get rated higher. I love Hakeem Nicks, but can’t say he’s better. We all love Jennings but I would take Calvin in a hearbeat. Overall on this list I think high teens to Low 20’s, but can’t see him outside 25 or so.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I can't see Fitz ahead of CJ
Andre Johnson, of course. He’s a more consistent version of CJ. But Fitz, I don’t know…Maybe it’s me being a homer, but CJ is more athletic and a bigger “big play” threat than Fitz is….
I'm glad they made Flintstone's vitamins because I used to watch The Flintstones and go, "Man I bet you if I ate that dude, I would be healthy."
Fitz dominated against us
And what he did in the 2008 playoffs was just ridiculous. He’s not as big of a deep threat, but he’s a better route runner, and nobody has better hands and leaping ability than Fitz. He completely ran over Woodson in that playoff game (literally, with the help of the refs, but still).
Maybe it’s just the games I saw, maybe it’s the Lions, but I’ve never seen CJ have that kind of a game.
"IT IS TIME"
I see what you're saying
And I absolutely expect CJ to have his career year this upcoming season. He has had 6 or 7 different QB’s throwing to him, as well as 2 different Offensive Coordinators during his time in Detroit. This is the 3rd season in a row with the same O-Coordinator and Stafford finally looks like he’s healthy (completely). We’ll see what happens.
I'm glad they made Flintstone's vitamins because I used to watch The Flintstones and go, "Man I bet you if I ate that dude, I would be healthy."
Yeah, it's Andre-Fitz-Megatron for me.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Then go look at his game against Washington this year
We are taught from an early age how to deal with failure not success. (If at first you don't succeed try try again, if at first you succeed then what....) -Charlie Sheen
I come ready, when I came out the womb I was ready, tell them mama that's why you had me, you knew I was ready. -Moss
Dominating your opposition physically is great and all, but confounding them mentally is sooo much more fun.
Im not racist and I don't discriminate, I stereotype; its faster
I call them april babies because they fools -lil wayne
Personally I go Fitz Andre and then Calvin.
Middle 20’s sounds about right overall, but I would not rate Roddy White ahead of Calvin. I’ve seen both play against my Packers, and it’s not even close. White puts up a lot of stats, but he’s the single most targeted WR in all of football.
CJ never played with anybody at QB nor RB and still put up great numbers.
Not to mention that he’s faster, quicker, more powerful and has better hands than White.
"IT IS TIME"
vince wilfork at 35?
travesty!
I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow
Devon Hester at #32 as a KR for cring out loud.
He did not even play the position last year but he is ranked as #32 on this list as a KR. He was a PR and did on a RARE occasion do KR’s but this list is so F’ed up. . . A KR guy who barely played that position is ranked as the 32 on this list. My Daddy told me when I was young. If it smells like SH!T, Feels like SH!T, and Taste’s like SH!T, then it is most likely SH
How many lumps you want Doc?
He was listed as a WR,
but I thought KR was more appropriate. I feel like KR can be used as a universal title for both kick-off returners and punt returners.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
SO this isn't EXACTLY as it was posted from the NFL site?
Is that what you are saying here? I still would not put Hester that high up on this list. Could he even start on any other team in this division? Seriously could he? Or should I say would you want him to start over the 2 WR’s on your roster who are currently starting? I don’t think any Viking fan would and I KNOW no Lions fan wants him as our starter, not even as the PR man.
How many lumps you want Doc?
You all seem to forget this one of every four times he touches the ball he goes for 40 yards or more
No other player does that he can change games like no one else. This from a Lion’s fan and as much as I love Logan as our returner I would take Hester in a heartbeat. If he was just a flash in the pan who had good production one year then yes he is too high but he has been doing it for years and no one else scares a team like he does.
We are taught from an early age how to deal with failure not success. (If at first you don't succeed try try again, if at first you succeed then what....) -Charlie Sheen
I come ready, when I came out the womb I was ready, tell them mama that's why you had me, you knew I was ready. -Moss
Dominating your opposition physically is great and all, but confounding them mentally is sooo much more fun.
Im not racist and I don't discriminate, I stereotype; its faster
I call them april babies because they fools -lil wayne
by Redwolf333 on Jun 20, 2011 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
LIES!
The way Cris Collinsworth was talking about him, he was OBVIOUSLY in contention for the #1 spot.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 16, 2011 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Well I guess if you can put a TE ahead of the QB from the same team
then anything is possible! Gonzo ahead of the guy who throws him the ball. . .YEAH O.K.!
How many lumps you want Doc?
By that reasoning
QB’s would have to rank 1-32 w/ everyone else coming after the QB’s. Why can’t a TE be a better player than his QB?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
If we were talking about
Witten; or Vernon Davis,maybe even Cooley, where they are clearly better than the current QB I could see it. But we are talking about a guy who is like 100 years old has not been relevant since going to ATL and that is just BS. If this was Gonzo who was in KC with NO QB then yes, but we are not talking about that guy he has been gone for almost 5 years now.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Gonzalez and Ryan
OK, I don’t agree w/ putting Gonzalez ahead of Ryan, tho I think Ryan is still somewhat overrated (he has yet to win a playoff game), doesn’t put up big passing numbers and is helped by a great running attack. He’s a top 10 QB, but barely IMO. Gonzalez has 83 and 70 rec the past 2 seasons. I would say that qualifies as relevant! His YPR is only aboiut 10, but they don’t use him downfield at all, just to keep the chains moving. I would guess Ryan in the 30’s or 40’s and Gonzalez in the 50’s or 60’s. Gonzo is still productive for what he’s asked to do.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Agree 100% about Ryan being a little OVERRATED.
That team goes as their running game goes. Turner is the key to that team going every week. Is it that Gonzo does not get let go to go down field or he so just so old that he can’t get down field anymore? I’m not really sure which it is, but to have him that high on this list still makes me sick. Gonzo is maybe the 5th best TE in this league and I am trying to be generous here with that 5th best. Witten, Davis, Finley, Shiancoe, Olson, Winslow Jr. I would take all those guys a head of Gonzo going into last year and even Pettigrew who still has the dropsies or Sheffler. Not being a homer to the NFC North but all these guys are better players than Gonzo at this point in his career.Don’t go by stats just what you see on the field.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Witten, Davis, Finley, Shiancoe, Olson, Winslow Jr.
And the others you mentioned all have more talent than Gonzo at this point in his career. But Gonzo is still more productive than most of them. I wouldn’t take Shiancoe over Gonzo, nor Winslow. Neither of them has had better years than Gonzo, IMO. I’m not going to argue, Gonzo clearly can’t get downfield like he used to and that plays into why they don’t ask him to. Talent is one thing, production is another. And based on production Gonzo still ranks pretty highly. Everytime Atl needs a 1st down, Ryan seems to look for him and mostly he gets it.
Based striclty by talent Gonzo probably shouldn’t be top 100, But he’s still productive, IMO…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
This list shows me 1 thing!
That there are a lot of NFL players sitting around smoking some SERIOUSLY good pot! There is no way that this list was comprised from last year, they have to be going off of TOTAL body of work! Otherwise NO WAY does Fitz go ahead of Megatron! Not off of last years stats.
How many lumps you want Doc?
To be fair,
DET’s 3rd string QB is a lot better than ARI’s 3rd stringer. Give me Hill and Stanton over anyone that threw the ball in Arizona.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
But do Hill and Stanton "take this sh!t seriously!"
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 16, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Is that a funny remark from my rant up above?
the whole !T thing. . .I hope it is cause I laughed at it as just.
How many lumps you want Doc?
It was in reference to AZ's QB situation vs. the Lions....
Lions have good backups, but Derek Anderson takes his shit seriously! As evidenced by the post game meltdown to the media last year. Was more just confirming that the Lions backups actually did really well compared to other teams out there.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jun 16, 2011 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I’ll throw up a new FP with the updated rankings tomorrow if I can get to it. There’s no reason to put it up here since this will lock tomorrow.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
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