NFC North Short Term Predictions
by AdamA on Jul 15, 2011 4:22 PM CDT
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PrintThe first six games of the regular season could go just about any way in the NFC North.
Yes, you have two teams who finished in the Conference Finals, one of whom is the defending Superbowl Champions. Absolutely, the Minnesota Vikings didn't play with much inspiration in the midst of their troubles. And most people are willing to bank that the Lions are going to be a better team this coming season.
But personel and identity changes can make a hell of an impact. And the first six
games in the schedule for each team isn't as kind to some as others.
So there you have it: personel and season outcome predictions for each NFC North team. We're likely to be wrong, but it'll be fun to track how right we were.
Green Bay Packers
The first six games of the season include the the Saints, Panthers, Bears, Broncos, Falcons and Rams. Naturally, you can expect every team to play them like it's the Superbowl. In my opinion, the player watch should be Cullen Jenkins on defense and who gets the start at Right Tackle. If the Packers don't resign Jenkins, it could impact their ability to place pressure on the QB up the middle in the early stages of the season. Conversely, Mark Tauscher has been great for the Packers at Right Tackle, when he's healthy and that has been a large question mark in the off season that hasn't gotten much attention because of the Packers draft picks. Two years in a row, they've drafted high for offensive linemen.
Chicago Bears
There's a lot of speculation as to what the Bears will do to shore up their offensive line as soon as their staff can make a decision, even as they made a decent pick in the draft for an offensive lineman. With their salary cap room, it's likely they may well look to acquire one or even two more players from the free agency.
Their first six games are against the Falcons, Saints, Packers, Panthers, Lions and Vikings and are the only team in the NFC North with the distinct advantage of getting a look at all of their division rivals early in the season. A double edged sword of sorts, because the first three teams on the schedule are playoff calibre teams.
Detroit Lions
Detroit's first six are against the Buccaneers, Chiefs, Vikings, Cowboys, Bears and 49ers. One could make the argument that they have the most work-in-progress teams of the early schedule, which won't tell much about a team in a similar position, but with all the speculation that Detorit might finish stronger this year, where will that begin? Detroit shouldn't expect a single easy game in the early part of the season, and might have to play their hardest right out of the gate.
The player to watch, as ever, is their Quarterback and whether or not he'll be able to finish those first six games. If Matthew Stafford can stay healthy, they could be a front runner for an early lead... but then again, how can anyone tell? He hasn't played enough consecutive games to make that kind of prediction.
Minnesota Vikings
I just read that Brett Favre was spending some time mentoring Joe Webb. Is that good news? Honest question: I don't know. With the draft of Chris Ponder and the aging defense, every indication seemed that the Vikings were looking at themselves strictly as a rebuilding team. But in all honesty, it would be just foolish for them to hang up the hopes of a playoff run just yet.
The quarterback issue aside, the questions are whether Sidney Rice will return and if Ray Edwards unhappiness with the team is the end of his tenure as a Viking. Their first six games are against the Chargers, Buccaneers, Lions, Chiefs, Cardinals and Bears. Not the easiest schedule, but also a great opportunity to make their mark if the Vikings staff believes this is a good year to make a run.
So how will they finish in the first six games? Who will get the start, who will they keep and who will get the big signing?
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Comments
First of all...
Congrats to you and yours on a great season last year! Wish we could put just one of those together!
I voted for my team, only because the Chargers typically start real slow and the rest of that schedule are games that we can compete in. Your schedule is brutal to start, kind of like ours last year. I honestly see you guys at 4-2 with 3-3 a possibility if the Bears can put a full game together. On our schedule, it’s hard for me to predict without rose colored glasses, but I see a loss vs SD and one against either the Bears or Bucs. If SD starts slow, then who knows?
You don't even know who your QB will be!
If its Ponder, he’s a rookie, so he’s likely to have a difficult start to his career! If it Webb, he’s a poor excuse for an NFL QB and is for all intents and purposes a rookie too! Coming from a small school and being drafted as a WR! Your not looking thru rose colored glasses, they are a deep dark purple! Cuz you certainly have blinders on and are certainly a homer, w/o any reason to believe the vikes can start quickly. I know you expect Peterson to carry the load on offense, but he won’t be able to against 8 or 9 in the box on run downs behind that porous OL of yours! And your D still has major holes in the secondary and at DT w/ P. Williams likely retired and the D getting older anyhow!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I know who the QB will be
It’s Ponder…. The only exception is if they sign/trade for a veteran QB as a mentor ( like McNabb). So, I know who my QB is going to be, or possibly better.
I assessed my team based on Ponder’s proven intelligence, history of low mistakes, transition from an almost identical offense, Peterson in the backfield, etc. I don’t think he will make a lot of mistakes as his smarts and history have been he won’t. he will hand the ball of a lot and dish it to the TE or Percy with an occasional deep one. The D will be improved. With Pat W. out, I think we are going to be much better! I watched last year as he played and that’s when we struggled on D. When anyone else came in the pressure was much better and took off pressure on the secondary—which was missing Chris Cook a great part of the year!
And there won’t be 8 or 9 in the box! Not with Percy wide, either of our TE’s and hopefully Rice (who was missing last year too!).
Ponder was a major reach!
He was a very late 1st or 2nd round pick. He will not be ready to just hand him the keys w/ no offseason to speak of and expect him to be able to succeed. Peyton Manning went like 1-15 as a rookie, so did Troy Aikman, is your Ponderboy anywhere near as talented as either?! HELL NO… If your going to come onto the Packers site, at least TRY to be a little realistic! Without P. Williams you don’t have much of a NT. Jimmy Kennedy is and always will be a BUST. You don’t suddenly get alot better when your approaching 30yrs old! Cook MIGHT be a decent CB, but he is for all intents and purposes still a rookie, and we all know what happens to rookie CB! They get picked on… And even in the 5 he played last year, he showed nothing to make you think he is a shutdown CB. He still has a ways to go to prove he is even an NFL CB, much less a starter!
Peterson WILL face at least 8 in the box, until Ponderboy shows he can make teams pay for playing that way. Whick he doesn’t have the arm for. Until he proves he can beat 8 in the box by going over the top teams will always give Peterson the respect instead of Ponder
If you wanna have a rational football discussion you can, but if your going to spew purple dellusion take it back to the cesspool at DN!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Ponder may have been a reach
At that high in the 1st round. However in the Senior Bowl, he was a man amongst boys. Add the intelligence of a Peyton Manning, or even more, and yeah, he MAY struggle year 1 but he certainly has a MUCH better team than Peyton did in his first year…. Bad comparison in my book. Peyton had nothing when he came in, nor did Aikman…. Ponder was who they wanted and to try and trade down 10 spots, if they even could, would have left them without him IMO. He was the smartest QB in the draft, and one that helped to start to turn around FSU. Certainly had as good of College stats, in a harder conference, than Matt Ryan and we see with the OC did with him!
Peterson will face 8 at times, always has, always will. Still will run for 1400 yards or so whether Ponder is the QB or not.
As for P. Williams, he hasn’t been much in 2 years. More things happen when Kennedy or Guillon are in there. That is a fact, not purple vision. Our line will be improved and Leslie knows that and it is why he isn’t pressing for PW.
by PurpleJesus on Jul 16, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
No they didn't have as much talent.
But they were also FAR more talented themselves than Ponderboy could ever hope to be! You actually think that w/ Favre at QB teams didn’t honor his passing ability even at age 40 to keep the defenses honest? Coooomonn Man! With Favre at QB you went 5-11, you have absolutely NO CHANCE of being much better than that w/ the rookie Ponder! Harder conference is a major stretch. Big East vs ACC is a wash, we’re not talking SEC here! Ryan had more talent and was far more prepared to start as a rookie than Ponder is. Not even close! You reached in a HUGE way for Ponder and no excuses will ever change that! Ponder has as good a chance of Pulling a Leaf, as he does a Matt Ryan! Jimmy Kennedy is a BUST and always will be.
Your being dellusional now, so go on back to the cesspool at DN! I said rational and little you’ve said is even close!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Strohman...
I enjoy reading your points on the various sites, but please eliminate the direct personal attacks. Make your football points, and make fans from other teams feel welcome.
Nitschke never wore an earring!
by Packer Pete on Jul 16, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 9 recs
Feel welcome
They are welcome by me if they are rational and don’t wear their team goggles on a Packer site. If they are being dellusional on the Packer site, I call them out. If they wanna be dellusional, they can stay at the cesspool at DN.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
You mean
Every time you were hostile to me, and other Cards fans called YOU (a fellow Cards fan) a TROLL! Seems your the one w/ the short memory!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Well
It gets tiresome having a fan of a different team come to your teams website and then make it a point to do nothing but talk about how much better his team is at any position.
And when I quit doing it you continued to insult me.
Is it any wonder I reminded you of that?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
That wasn't what I did
when I visited your site.
I mentioned the Packers, and our coach, in the course of making a point, but I didn’t “talk about how much better” the Packers are than the Cards, yet you and one other guy practically accused me of doing so.
And, for that matter, over the past month and a half, or so, I have been reading, and commenting on, fanposts on every NFL team’s SB Nation site, and, as just about any fan of any team probably would, I occasionally have mentioned my team in the course of the discussions (doing my best, in the process, to simultaneously talk as reasonably and as respectfully as possible), snd ya know something?
You and that other Cardinals fan were the only two people, out of all 31 of the other teams’ pages, to give me any flak for that.
The only two!
And, you know, I really couldn’t help but wonder if I’d have gotten that kind of reception from Cardinals fans if the Cards were still back in the midwest.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Well, it's Arizona, what do you expect?
A lag in Wisconsin DMV paperwork caused the license plate to show up as on my friend’s old car (a ’79 Porsche 924), rather than his new car (a ’99 Honda Civic). In other states where we got pulled over [Florida, Texas, California], the police questioned the discrepancy (as transferring plates is not allowed in all states, apparently). The only time a ticket was issued was in Texas, with the caveat being if WI law allows plate transfers, the charge would be dropped, which it eventually was. Arizona? Well, the police physically removed the license plate from the car and put it in the squad car, and issued him a ~$200 ticket for “knowingly displaying fictitious plates.” When he asked them how, when the two of us were 2000 miles from home without a plate, we were supposed to get there, they simply replied:
You should have thought about that before you came to Arizona.Contrast that with the response we got from the WI DMV (after 150 harrowing miles of driving without plates to Flagstaff): they sent the registration sticker, free of charge to the address we were staying at. Luckily, he still had the front plate on the Porsche back in WI and got it mailed, or else I have no idea how the fuck we would have gotten back without massive inconveniences.
13.
Thats weird...
because I’ve found the police down here to be far less picky about statutory things than in WI. Then again, its the city so maybe.
The only thing I can give as an explanation is that car theft is a huge problem in this state and that would be something that would draw suspicion. They may have to do that.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 19, 2011 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Except the car was in his name and the license plate was in his name.
There was nothing that didn’t have proof of his ownership. They didn’t impound the car, they took the license plate, which is just a total dick move. If they had suspicion that the car was stolen, then they shouldn’t have let him drive it away.
13.
Where did that happen?
Like was it State Patrol? Or just city or sherrif?
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 19, 2011 5:28 AM CDT up reply actions
MM, well then I'm not really surprised...
in my experience, State Patrol are dicks in every state.
In Texas on a Monday afternoon I saw no less than a dozen state patrol in the western half of the state pulling over everyone (cars, tractor trailers, etc.) including me for some pretty petty stuff. And there is NOTHING in western Texas along the I-10 to be pulling people over for.
When I lived in WI, they were always the ones that caused me problems. And in AZ, though I’ve never been pulled over by one (since I avoid the freeways in the city anyway) I see them often on a disproportionate scale to other police.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 19, 2011 6:49 AM CDT up reply actions
You're acting like a Steelers fan...
And it is a direct shot at them. Went to their site, and, let’s just say that it’s no coincidence that James Harrison plays for them.
"IT IS TIME"
by PackersRS on Jul 17, 2011 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree this time.
Purple Jesus was talking strictly football, even if it was about his team. Thats fine, it was a good discussion and relevant to the topc considering we are looking at the NFC North teams.
Plus I want to hear how Viking’s fans feel about their team going into next year and he was nice enough to come here and be more than polite.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 16, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Like I said...
I don’t mind rational, but he’s living w/ dullusion if he thinks Ponder or the viqueens are gonna do well and approach even a .500 record! They would do well to win 6 games this year. A rookie QB and a older declining Defense isn’t going to get them near 8 wins!
If he wants to talk crap like that he can go to the cesspool that is DN!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
This is something that kinda pisses me off.
Packer fans are too F’in nice! Go to Lambeau and opposing teams fans barely get an earfull. I brought a friend to a Packers/Cowboys game a few years ago and NODOBY harrassed him for being a Cowboys fan, but ME! Packer fans sit on their hands and shut up when a fan of an opposing team is cheering openly for his team. Same damn thing on a Packers website! I’m not saying they should be fearful for their lives or health, but they should NOT feel totally comfortable cheering openly like they do! In that Packer Cowboy game on a Sun nite, about 30% of the crowd was Dallas! That is freakin ridiculous… I know we have great passionate fans, but for a Dallas fan to not even get harrassed verbally in Lambeau is freakin WRONG! And for that many to have tickets to the game is a joke! Too many packer fans selling their tickets to the highest bidder instead of only the highest Packers bidder!
Letting a vikes fan come to a Packer site is the same damn thing! Its one thing to visit and be ultra-respectful, but when they start going on about how the vikes are going to be good this season and be competitve when we all know they are falling apart and don’t have a QB is crap!
Packer fans need to start making opposing teams fans a little more uncomfortable and much less vocal when they visit us!
Sorry about the rant, but had to get that off my chest. It pissses me off!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
You have it backwards Stroh
What makes Packers fans great is that they aren’t obnoxious dbags.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
by AdamA on Jul 16, 2011 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 10 recs
Too nice!
They don’t have to be obnoxious, but they don’t have to allow opposing teams fans into Lambeau w/ being uncomfortable either! Fans of opposing teams should know if they cheer for their team they are gonna get verbally harrassed all game long!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
In the end, it's just a game.
There’s no reason to harass or make others uncomfortable.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 16, 2011 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
I disagree Stroh
….This isn’t the field of play. I agree that it would be nice for packer fans to sell more to packer fans, but you don’t need to verbally harass fans of the opposing team to make a field an imposing place to go.
I agree with AdamA whole heartedly that our good behavior reflects better on us than harrassing fans from another team. I enjoyed listening to PurpleJesus speak, and found nothing fawning or deserving of contempt in his writing. Hell, he could be right! You never know when the next great QB is going to come up, and everything he’s been saying at least has been backed up by observation and fact. I doubt the football gods are going to come down on ponders side too, but I’m not going to yell at the guy who’s hoping they are. It is his team after all, I would expect him to hope that.
In the end, a combative style of writing doesn’t make you more correct Stroh. I would listen to you far more often if you toned it down a bit and realized we are talking about football, not hitting each other with sticks with the fate of the packers hanging in the outcome. Reasoned debate doesn’t have to be so angry.
by azreal60 on Jul 16, 2011 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
I knew this would open a can of worms...
But I stand by my statements! When opposing fans can invade Lambeau and feel completely comfortable cheering for their teams, its just WRONG! My opinion and nothing you can say will change it.
I’m not saying I’m correct, Im stating MY OPINION.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Your comments are mildly concerning to say the least.
It is people like you who shouldn’t feel comfortable.
“Too nice”? Is that like being “too smart” or “too good looking”? Cripes.
twitter.com/AlfredAugust
by Tedaldtada29 on Jul 16, 2011 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Look at it like this..
Your throwing a party at YOUR house and invite a bunch of people. Someone you invite brings a friend and that person is a fan of the opposing team. Whenever his team does anything remotely good, he cheers his ass off. Are you going to let him be loud and obnoxious IN YOUR HOME?!
I sure the hell am gonna make sure he knows damn well that he’s in MY house and he’s gonna hear about all day long, if he chooses to act that way!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I know what you mean...
its just that, I like going to NFC North rival sites and have friendly conversation just like I enjoy that here. Over at DN, since I’ve been around SBN (longer than I’ve been posting here), Chris Gates have given me the opinion (rightfully or wrongfully) that his site is for his fans and he doesn’t want others around there (especially us, and I get that nobody wants trolls). I just don’t want APC to be like that, and I like a place that welcomes opposing fans to come have open discussions. Of course they are going to be homerish towards their team, but thats what makes the differing perspectives interesting and thought provoking provided there isn’t harrassment or trolling.
Stroh, you do a lot of what PJ did here over at RBR with talking about your favorite team on another team’s website and you see how they react to that. Not very welcoming all the time, and I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong over there. So I think you should be the one to understand that other fans coming here are going to talk their team or relate stuff to their team also.
Anyway, just my take. I like a friendly, welcoming place….even if some think its too nice. I’d rather be too nice than be a place where others don’t want to visit because they think we are all mean. Its especially unfair to the authors, who I’m sure want their articles read by as many people as possible (another reason I dislike Gates’ attitude towards us at DN. Its not fair to the other authors who are losing readership because we don’t go there for rival news).
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 16, 2011 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
I treat people the way I'm treated.
If they are being disrespectful of my opinions on their site, thats what they can expect on the site of my team. Simple as that…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
DN
For the record, I dislike Gates abusive actions (at times) and I am ALWAYS the first one to write SB Nation and seek their assistance. More than once they have written back and assured me it was handled.
To this point, he does have a right to handle abusive fans of other teams that come there, as does your moderators. I would expect that. There is nothing better than good, clean, NFL talk without any need for “you suck”, etc. That’s kid stuff! I try to treat these sites much the same way as sitting at a bar next to someone rooting for a different team and simply asking “so, what do you think about this?”… That’s what it’s all about in my humble opinion.
by PurpleJesus on Jul 17, 2011 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wow
I’m a life long LIons fan, and read up here once in awhile because I respect Packer fans. Like the respect I get from them for being a loyal fan since 57. I thnk Packer Pete has it right. As far as harrassing opposing fans in Lambeau goes, most don’t because I think there’s a respect aspect for having the guts to show you’re a real fan, and support your team. I live in WI now, with many Packer fan friends. The extremely vast majority of which treat other true fans with respect and class.
Let’s hope we have football soon, and may all have an injury free season!
Expectations don't produce!
by 2manyears on Jul 18, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Welcome to the discuss!
Gotta wonder – where do you think your team stands in terms of shoring up that secondary? Notice they didn’t really draft anyone and haven’t heard too much talk about them hunting down someone in the FA.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
It's tough
Secondary and lb’s are a big concern of mine. The only thing we can do is acquire in FA. It’s going to be a mad rush for all the teams to get it done within the proposed two week period I think we’re facing before camps. Our D line will help the secondary no doubt but, still a very weak point of the team. I just shrug off all the talk of nailing a top DB. I’ll wait and see what happens. That’s all any of us can do. In any case, if Stafford can stay off his arse, we should be very competitive.
Expectations don't produce!
Yeah, I think the ridiculousness of your DL will cover for some of your deficiencies in the secondary.
You guys are close; a very dangerous team.
13.
Pesonally
I was upset we didn’t take Prince instead of Fairley. Our D line was pretty substantial as is. I think it was a big mistake. Time will tell though. It’s all a crap shoot and as much as we think we know, the front offices and scouts overall, know better!
Expectations don't produce!
I think you should act like a Packer fan..............or buy an Eagles flag for your front porch
As a lifelong season ticketholder, your suggestion to be anything less than hospitable to an opposing team’s fan is disgusting. Other than for the obvious reasons, one thing that makes this Packer fan most proud is when I hear a fan from another part of the country say what a great time they had at Lambeau. Jerks like you should do everyone a favor and watch from home instead of screaming profanities and educating the children around them in poor sportsmanship. We (Packer fans) don’t want you. Go find a team that suits that crap better………………take a hike d’bag.
by 4rings4gb on Jul 19, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Go F Yourself
You self-rightous piece of shit!
Where did I say anything about profanity or having a good time? NO WHERE… I just don’t think Packer fans should let opposing teams fans come into our house and be able to act like they own it… they should KNOW they are in our house and walk out knowing they can’t walk into Lambeau and not hear about it ALL DAY LONG!
I’ve been to game where opposing fans don’t have anyone talking in their ear during the game. Its very possible to make them hear it w/o profanity, tho a little of it never hurt. Feel free to sell your tickets to someone who will give the opponents fans a hard time, talk a little smack, anything to make sure they know they are in OUR HOUSE!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I rest my case..........................
And by the way it’s OUR house. Your’s has a half-moon window in the door and a cloud of flies inside you douche.
Your the one who started this
Calling me a dbag!!! So who is should be resting a case? Certainly not you, a piece of shit fan!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Your the reason we don't have a better homefield advantage!!!
Become part of the solution! Let other fans hear about it! Let the other team hear about it! Too many fans sitting on thier hands and not making enough noise or giving opposing fans a hard time!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Homefield Advantage
There’s a difference between making noise and cussing at opposing fans. I wholeheartedly agree that we all need to do a better job at generating noise in Lambeau to make it difficult for the opposing TEAMS, but in no way does that mean we should make remarks towards other fans.
I ran out of quotes.....
by Jabooty on Jul 20, 2011 5:34 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Thanks Pete!
I enjoy talking straight football and don’t ever plan on coming here and attacking anyone. I enjoy the rivalry and even congratulated you and yours for what you accomplished last year. It was a GREAT year whether I root for you or not!
I also like Aaron Rodgers and think he is a great QB. Wish we had a QB with 3/4 of his skill….
I also understand that we all have fans like this and I always try to control it over at DN as well. Especially when it is polite, objective conversation and not direct attacks. If someone comes over at DN and starts harassing our fans, I usually just stay quiet and allow the moderators to handle it…. Not my thing to come on this site and aggravate myself. I just enjoy good, intelligent, competitive NFL talk and do it for the conversation and varying opinions.
by PurpleJesus on Jul 17, 2011 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
All I did
Was ask you to be rational and take off the Purple googles when you visit! Talking like Ponder has any chance of success this year is NOT rational!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
How do you know Stroh?
Rookies have succeeded before. And how many of those rookies had Adrian Peterson in the backfield along with a good slot guy, a good TE, and possibly a big receiving threat? Sure, the OL needs a lot of work but there are still weapons there.
You’re problem, which pops up every time something like this happens, is that YOUR opinion has to be correct and there’s no chance that anything to the contrary can be true. I, like you, would be surprised if the Vikings had a good season. But I can at least acknowledge that it is a possibility.
A fan thinking his team can get off to a good start is not completely irrational.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
by Omaha Sun on Jul 17, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Well
Rodgers had a 1200 yd rusher behind him and he went 6-10 as a 1st year starter, granted his stats were good. Elway was horrid as a rookie as were Aikman and Manning. Very few rookie QB’s are ever productive, hell most 1st year starter struggle at some aspects of the game. And Ponder is nothing special! Rodgers probably had a better chance of success as a rookie than Ponder! He’s smarter, and came from an NFL based passing offense at Cal.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I try to be a realist
I don’t, and have never once, said we are going to contend for the division next year. I do however, to your point, think that with the weapons we have on offense, that an exceptionally smart QB (like Bradford last year) can start to make some noise and get the team headed in the right direction. Look at all the highly successful QBs and what you see is intelligent guys with average, or slightly better than average, skills. Peyton (good arm-not great, no mobility, but very smart), Brady (good arm-not great, some mobility, but very smart), Brees (ok arm-no way great, some mobility, but very smart)…. see a pattern here?
by PurpleJesus on Jul 17, 2011 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Matt Ryan and Christian Ponder both played in the ACC.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 16, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
That is true..
…my point was in err. I meant that FSU plays a harder schedule. They get UF and U 0f M every year. Always a harder schedule
U of Miami
has been about a .500 team for awhile now! Not so much harder then alot of teams!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
There is only one U of M
And it’s not in Florida.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 17, 2011 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
How about da U
And that’s probably coming from an alumni member? Because there are many U of M. One just south in Ohio. One is Mass. Etc….
Ole Mass?
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Ha!
There are a ton.. MIss, Mass, MN, Miami, blah, blah, blah…
by PurpleJesus on Jul 18, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
No it's not.
Miami University. The real, original Miami.
Miami Florida was named after the Miami river valley in Ohio.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
I got the idea that
he was pointing out the difference between
Miami University (Ohio) and the
University of Miami (Florida),
and when he said,
Miami Florida was named after the Miami river valley in Ohio.it was simply in support of his point that Ohio’s Miami was “The real, original Miami.”
To summarize:
When Charlie Kelly said,
There is only one U of Myou replied,
And it’s not in Florida.
Yeah, it’s in Ohioand mittsabishy felt the need to correct you on a detail that is probably more important to those in Ohio than it is to most of the rest of us heathens.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Um, I was born in Columbus, OH
then when I was ten, I moved to Columbus, WI. True story.
Ohio has a kick-ass flag, way better than that blue background-ed tripe that passes for a flag in WI
Oh-i-o, FUCK YEAH!
Well, the tips of the swallowtail are cut off, but you get the idea.
13.
Oh, Kay.
So, you moved out of there when you were 10, and so are no longer one of “those in Ohio.”
You still needed to be corrected on that minor (to us; major, to them) detail.
And, what’s with that non-conformist shaped Ohio flag, anyway? :)
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Calling Miami University the "U of M"
Is the same thing as calling the Pack the “Bay Packers Green”
The wrong order makes it totally wrong.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Jul 19, 2011 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree wholeheartedly.
It’s a fine distinction that too many can’t appreciate.
(Although, I tend to think that it would be more like calling the Packers the Bay Green Packers, because I think that switching the M and the U is more like switching the Green and the Bay than it is like moving the Green from the front to the back.
Kind of like those intelligence test questions where they say one word is to a second word like a third word is to … and then they give you four words to choose from, and you’re supposed to pick the one that is the best fit. :)
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
I was actually referring to the University of Minnesota
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 19, 2011 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for the support.
And to bring it back to the football in this conversation (and Miami), how come Ben Roethlisberger isn’t mentioned when discussing rookie quarterbacks? I think Ponder has no chance of being as good as Ben, but I don’t understand why only Aikman and Peyton are brought up.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
Ben had the Steelers' defense.
He also had a coach who thought it was 1933, and ran the offense in the appropriate manner (ie, they ran the ball way more than any team).
He also didn’t go on to be one of the top couple of QBs in the league.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by ISN on Jul 19, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Okay
A rookie qb on a team with a good defense and a great running attack shouldn’t ever consider having to be compared to a rookie qb on a team with a good defense and a great running attack.
And if that original rookie qb wins 2 superbowls he shouldn’t be considered good either. Gotcha.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Jul 20, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
The Steelers defense can win games without putting any guys out there on offense.
Not sure you could say that about any other team in the league. Especially the Vikings. Easy to do okay as a QB when you can hand the ball off your first 15 snaps and still lead 14-0.
Can Frazier afford to hand the ball off when he’s down by a couple of TDs? A rookie coach doesn’t exactly have the same level of job security as a then-13 year head coach with a Super Bowl and 3 championship games on his resume.
And Roethlisberger isn’t one of the top 5 QBs in the league. He’s the epitome of the “he wins games, he must be great” argument, forgetting the fact he’s had the #1 defense every year they’ve done well, has two terrible Super Bowls (1-1 with an apology from the refs) and one where the Cards and officials did everything they could to give it to him (Harrison down at the 6-inch line, the Cards forgetting how to cover in the last two minutes, the numerous missed holds on the catch, and then calling that a catch on the field?).
He’s in the same group as Eli Manning, Matt Schaub, Mike Vick, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
I don't even know if we're arguing the same thing
I’m arguing that supporters of Ponder should suggest that a Roethlisberger quality year should be the goal. And that critics shouldn’t point only to Elway, Manning, and Aikman.
Heck, why not throw Rick Mirer in there as an aspiration?
And obviously Roethlisberger is not the best qb around. But I’m pretty sure that any team drafted a 1st round qb this year or the next, would be ecstatic to have him perform at his level over the next 7 years.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
Maybe I read something in your tone that wasn't there.
He’s not going to be compared to Roethlisberger because not even the most hardcore Vikes fan out there thinks they have a shot at going 15-1 and crushing teams right off the bat. Far better to point to two great QBs who struggled to put up wins early in their careers, and say “rookie seasons don’t matter, look at Manning, Aikman etc” when they struggle.
They should be better than they were last year, purely because no QB could possibly be as bad as 2010 Favre. If I were a betting man, I’d say 6-10, Peterson cracks 400 carries and 1800 yards, and Ponder puts up roughly equal (per attempt) stats to Bradford last year.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
I'm pretty sure
The Steelers defense can win games without putting any guys out there on offense. Not sure you could say that about any other team in the league.
you could say it about the Packers defense (and without taking anything away from the Psckers offense).
Ask the Jets.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
by NorthStarr on Jul 21, 2011 2:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was making a point here.
The Vikes D /= the Steelers D. Or the Packers. Or the Jets (although they weren’t the same unit as 09).
They’re not in a spot where they can punt on three or four drives and still be in the game.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Oh I dunno
The Bears offense had some pretty poor moments and their D kept them in it.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Well,
Jay Cutler was their QB.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
More intelligence than Manning?
LOL
SUPER BOWL CHAMPS
by Chief Oshkosh on Jul 18, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Or Rodgers?!!
LMAO
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Jul 18, 2011 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Intelligence (education) coming out of college
The kid is a borderline genius. Got his degree in two years and had his Masters a year later and was working on the second Masters before he ever graduated! Please show me, anywhere, please anywhere… another NFL Rookie QB with a BS, an MBA and almost a second in one 4 year period in college. Please….
Now, taking nothing away from the great QB’s… They have accumulated experience and NFL wits with experience. Manning wasn’t what he is today in his rookie year. That was my point. Sorry I didn’t clarify better.
Rodgers
Has a 38 wonderlic to Ponders 32 IIRC on the numbers! And from FSU what he did wasn’t a great accomplihsment, other than some hard work. Not like FSU ranks as a great school by any means! As opposed to Cal, which is a top university!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Wonderlic, really?
People score differently every time they take the test.
And, Wonderlic has been proven through studies to have no significant correlation to success in the NFL. Don’t believe me, read this from Wikipedia:
A 2005 study by McDonald Mirabile found that there is no significant correlation between Wonderlic scores and a quarterback’s passer rating, and no significant correlation between Wonderlic scores and a quarterback’s salary.16 Similarly, a 2009 study by Brian D. Lyons, Brian J. Hoffman, and John W. Michel found that Wonderlic test scores failed to positively and significantly predict future NFL performance for any position.17
The Lyons study also found that the relationship between Wonderlic test scores and future NFL performance was negative for a few positions, indicating the higher a player scores on the Wonderlic test, the worse the player will perform in the NFL.1718 Mike Florio of Profootballtalk.com observes that scoring too high can be as much of a problem as scoring too low. Football coaches want to command the locker room. Being smarter than the individual players makes that easier. Having a guy in the locker room who may be smarter than every member of the coaching staff can be viewed as a problem — or at a minimum as a threat to the egos of the men who hope to be able when necessary to outsmart the players, especially when trying in some way to manipulate them.19
I disagree on the Wonderlic
There is a trend with the Wonderlic that can give teams an idea how a player will perform in the NFL, but it’s not 100% accurate and can’t solely be relied upon. Basically, QB’s that score 25+ are generally successful, while QB’s that score 17 or below generally are busts or don’t pan out. There are some exceptions, but a trend does give you an idea how quick the QB can think and react. There’s not much of a difference between a 32 and 37 though. I don’t think the intelligence area will be a problem for Ponder, it’ll be the arm strength and rebuilding of the team that will hurt him.
I ran out of quotes.....
Could be...
I personally don’t think we are rebuilding, or need to rebuild, as much as everyone here. We are just one year away from a NFC Championship game and with the exception of an aging Berrian, aging P. Williams and some O line help, we are somewhat a better team. I mean the defense is better than 2009. The head coach is better. The OC, I have high hopes for.
The QB play will be the big thing. If Ponder, or Webb, can go out and not make mistakes, and spread the ball out (like Webb vs Philly when they were trying for home field advantage last year) we can have a “good” season. Not saying we are going to challenge for the division, but I am also not going to throw out a possible wild card spot if Ponder or Webb can do their job…. Now I know that is optimistic but I think Brett hurt us bad last year with very bad decisions and trying to force it which he didn’t do in 2009. I also think some key injuries to Rice, Percy for a bit, Chris Cook, etc. hurt as we just don’t have the depth you do.
Vikings Rebuilding
Jared Allen only has a few more years left. By the time Ponder gets comfortable as a starting NFL QB, Allen will be quickly declining in production. Maybe we’ve already begun to see that too, because there are plenty of times where Allen disappears in games when facing some of the better LT’s in the league. When Allen goes, the pass rush goes. When the pass rush goes, the defense is in deep trouble. Antoine Winfield is your best CB and he’s also aging. It’s only a matter of time before he quickly regresses in production.
As for the offense, it’s the OL that’s troubling. LT McKinnie is inconsistent and isn’t getting any younger. I understand that RT Phil Loadholdt was injured last year, so all you can do is hope it was the injuries that surely made him look bad. If he doesn’t bounce back sucessfully, then you’re in even more trouble. LG Steven Hutchinson is obviously on his last legs. Then you have your issues at C and RG. By the time Ponder is comfortable in the NFL, AP will start to regress in production.
You don’t see it now, but it’s a timing issue. It centers around Ponder, because it generally takes a QB 3 years to get his feet wet in the NFL. Sometimes there are exceptions, but this is the usual. The biggest thing is the NFC North is not a cupcake division anymore. The Lions are quickly getting better, and they are a very young team. The Bears are aging, but they are not over the hill yet. The Packers just won the Superbowl with an injury ravished roster, now they are getting a lot of starters back. All of your opponents in this division are improving, while the Vikings are probably going to start a rookie QB. This isn’t 2008 again where every team in the NFC North was an easy win.
I ran out of quotes.....
Counter points
Jared Allen is starting to age but is still only 29. His sacks dropped mildly this past year, but that was a function of the defensive scheme as he also dropped into coverage at times resulting in 2 INTs. And while his sacks dropped, his tackles increased as did his assists.
I agree Antoine is our best CB and he did fight with an ankle injury a good part of last year. That being said, he did come on strong at the end of the year as it started to heal…. And Chris Cook is a potential bright spot for us at CB and likely soon to be their best CB. He has demonstrated cover skills but not the read and react skills that Winfield has for coming off a WR and tackling a RB behind the line of scrimmage. Not many have the skill Winfield does there…. We also drafted another CB this year and I wouldn’t be surprised to see us pursue a FA and maybe move Cook to Safety.
The OL is a concern. I said it elsewhere here but I do expect to see them make some moves once the cut frenzy begins in the next few days.
Lastly, I agree that the division is improving and we aren’t currently a team that can be viewed as challenging for the division. I see some holes that need to be fixed but certainly not a complete overhaul or total rebuild. I envision a way to complement the nice young O weapons we have put together with some experience OL help, and a CB or safety…. Ponder will progress at his own rate and whether that will take 3 years, longer, or never just isn’t known…. Point is, they took probably the most NFL ready, hardworking, QB in this draft and that shows they are committed to replacing and building as necessary.
Allen and the Salary Cap
If Jared Allen is 29, he is now entering his prime. Meaning in 3 years, he will be on the downside of his career.
The OL is a concern. I said it elsewhere here but I do expect to see them make some moves once the cut frenzy begins in the next few days.
The only question I have in regards to this is: How is it possible? The Vikings are $5.1 Million over the Cap and still have to sign their draft picks yet. Obviously they will probably release Bernard Berrian to free up cap space, but is that enough? I’m not sure if the Vikings can afford any free agents. How do you envision your OL going into this season?
I ran out of quotes.....
Actually I have a post at DN on Salary cap #
They are at $108M or $12M under. They will get rid of Berrian and I expect Madieu Williams to be gone too. That frees up $9M more.
P. Williams is gone that opened up $6M and Brett retired, which we all believe (hehe) and that freed up $20M.
We are actually in pretty good shape as far as the cap. We have $93M in salaries committed before cuts, and the balance is bonuses charged.
How many free agents are you hoping for?
I’ll go ahead and assume the Vikings won’t sign more than 1 free agent offensive lineman considering the competitive market…
I ran out of quotes.....
About five years ago,
I personally don’t think we are rebuilding, or need to rebuild
that’s what a lot of people were saying about the Packers.
But, we rebuilt, anyway.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
I think we are always replacing
If you call that rebuilding then we are. But breaking down and almost starting over, no I don’t see it. A lot of good pieces still young enough to supplement and get back to contention in a year or so.
Usually its broken down into: Reloading or Rebuilding.
But those can be subjective terms. I almost always think that a team that gets a new QB that they see as a franchise QB is in rebuildign mode, and over a few years will remake a good part of the team to fit the QB and abilities of the offense.
Reloading I see as replacing sometimes big name players or contributors but not really changing the system or style of the team.
Not sure which road the Vikings are taking at this point. Part of me says rebuilding with a newly designed Coach, OC and QB. Part of me thinks they have a lot of pieces in place that they think they can just reload and shoot for the division again within a couple years with the same system.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 21, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh..
…and I agree on the wonderlic. It isn’t the be all, end all. But it has some value. QB’s do have to score mid 20’s or higher and that is important. They need to demonstrate intelligence and the ability to think on their feet. The wonderlic helps assess that to some extent.
It also doesn’t mean someone like Ponder is going to be a lock to be successful. Hard work, low mistakes and support staff around him are necessary. I believe he has the first two. It is the support I am worried about—mainly because of the O line.
I have to agree with Strohman on the FSU thing
I think I was qualified to teach at FSU when I was a senior in high school.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 20, 2011 6:31 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Academically
I can’t argue CAL is a more prestigious school than FSU. I am also smart enough to realize that he was one of the highest rated QB’s coming out of high school, and CAL wasn’t going to be one of his choices whether it was offered or not. As a high school QB, with a ranking such as his, he is going to go to a school that has a history of potential to go to a national championship and be drafted. FSU has put far more players into the NFL than Cal over the last 20 years. If the NFL is your goal, then a good education can be had at almost any school. And, there is nothing saying he can’t go to a Harvard (as an example) after his NFL career is done—if that’s what he wants to do. He has demonstrated academically that he is in a place where very few have gone.
Stop it
You say wonderlic has no correlation to NFL success than you say because Ponder has an MBA he’s smarter than Manning?
Stop it.
Or go hire Stephen Hawking to be your backup QB.
"IT IS TIME"
LOL
No correlation to one MBA in 4 years to a guy who was recruited nationally out of HS as a QB, helped rebuild a college program by improving it year after year, completed over 60% of his passes, has a low turnover % AND earned a BS in 2 1/2 years, an MBA in the next year and was working on a second MBA when he graduated.
Lastly, wonderlic is proven to have no DIRECT correlation to NFL success. There are QB’s in this past draft McElroy, who scored 43 and likely will have NO NFL success. There are QB’s drafted this year who had wonderlics in the 20’s and will probably have some success. So, no, wonderlic doesn’t guarantee anything.
CHILD PLEASE!!! :-)
McElroy will beat out Sanchez come 2013 training camp.
Maybe even 2012.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Sanchez is crap.
If the Jets had drafted Freeman, they would have been blown out in the Super Bowl.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
The point being:
Wonderlic has no direct correlation to NFL success, but college degrees does?
So what’s the point of bringing them up, again? Trying to make yourself feel better to have overdrafted the QB of the future?
For the record, Ponder was the guy I most liked coming out of this draft, as long as he went to a WCO. But that’s because this draft was extremely weak in QBs, and everyone of them was overdrafted due to despair.
I think Ponder can turnout to be a very good QB (never elite, lacks the arm strenght to pin the needle in key throws, think of a Matt Hasselback), but it certainly has nothing to do with his MBA, and saying he’s smarter than Manning, when talking about football, is nothing short of preposterous.
"IT IS TIME"
Wonderlic doesn't measure hard work AND intelligence
Multiple college degrees, yes I said multiple, does….
Pretty damn good combo that hasn’t been done much.
by PurpleJesus on Jul 21, 2011 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Was it really a weak QB draft class, though?
Considering just how many players were selected in the top round?
Locker and Gabbert were reaches, as was Newton (LOL Panthers), but generally, a weak QB class wouldn’t wind up with as many first round picks as this one did. You want a weak QB draft class? Look at 2000, with only ONE QB selected in the top round (Chad Pennington) and three in the top three rounds (Pennington, Giovanni Carmazzi and Chris Redman)…
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 22, 2011 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes it was.
The reason so many teams drafted QBs is because so many teams needed a QB. As exemplified by you guys.
Just look at the situations around the league. How many teams needed QBs in the draft?
Vikings
Panthers
Redskins
49ers
Cardinals
Seahawks
Bengals
Titans
Jacksonville
Dolphins
Bills
Raiders
And a case could be made for the Browns, Chiefs and Bears.
Some teams were so bad (Vikings) that they HAD to choose a QB.
It was a weak class. Deep, but with no sure pick. Every prospect had a clear flaw to him. Bradford, Stafford, Ryan, even Flacco, Sanchez and Freeman would be better prospects than what there was at the disposal in this draft.
Not saying it was the weakest class ever, or that none will pan out, but it wasn’t good enough. Teams that selected QBs reached, for the most part, because there were better prospects to be selected.
"IT IS TIME"
You guys?
Wait, what?!
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 23, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You should've flagged that, Grant.
as a personal attack! :)
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
PERSONAL ATTACK!
/BlackShoeDiaries’d
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 24, 2011 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Tried to reply to 2 people at the same time = fail
And, yes, I would gladly take the flag. IMHO calling someone a viking fan should be punished with death. ;)
"IT IS TIME"
A little more fact for you
Wonderlic scores: Christian Ponder (35), Ricky Stanzi (30), Andy Dalton (29), Ryan Mallett (26), and Jake Locker (20).
The average score for a quarterback was 24.
Just a little perspective, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees both scored 28.
That clearly makes him a more "intelligent" QB while running plays in the NFL
SUPER BOWL CHAMPS
by Chief Oshkosh on Jul 19, 2011 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
No it doesn't
But it leads to my optimism about his chances. Never said he was a sure thing. Just a chance worth taking…
Please show me, anywhere, please anywhere… another NFL Rookie QB with a BS, an MBA and almost a second in one 4 year period in college.
Back in the day, Bernie Kosar. Now? Nobody else.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Jul 20, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
And that’s great but being book smart and football smart are two completely different things. Not saying Ponder isn’t football smart either.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 20, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess...
…read what you want into what I said in all my posts above. I simply implied the kid is very smart, has NFL type skills, worked in an NFL type system in college, has completed consistently over 60% of his passes with consistently low turnover rate <—— football smart.
Now, will that convert to NFL football smart? We will see. My opinion is he is worth the risk and his history, work ethic and attitude give me reason for optimism. That’s all.
Besides
The question was, who has the easiest schedule… Not who I think has the best team. Right now, the best team is you or the Bears. But, you both have at least 3 games you could easily lose in the first 6. We have the Bears and SD, the rest are toss ups depending on TB’s ability to put back to back decent years together.
Records after six
Packers 5-1
Bears 2-4
Lions 3-3
Vikings 1-5; 0-6 if the Cardinals find a QB.
Favre is tutoring Webb on the photograph feature of his cell phone. No reason for Favre to instruct Webb on tossing the season-killling pick; the Vikes won’t sniff the playoffs for several seasons.
The Packers need to get off to a fast start. These past seasons of 4-4 marks at the midpoint are getting tedious for a team with this kind of talent. To be a great team, these Packers must learn to put away lesser teams: no more OT losses to the likes of the Redskins and Dolphins.
Gonna be a great season!
Nitschke never wore an earring!
4-2
My first thought when I saw the Packers first six games was a 4-2 record. There are three gimmes in the group – Denver, Carolina and St Louis. NO is tough game at home, then away games in Chicago and Atlanta. 5-1 would be nice, but 4-2 is more realistic. They will still end up 11-5 for the season- the schedule doesn’t get much tougher then the first six games. An away at SD, other then that nothing scares me. Other then that – every NFL team loses one or two games they shouldn’t, remember it is not a round ball and doesn’t always bounce they way you expect it too.
Favre is tutoring Webb
on the photograph feature of his cell phone?
Does Jenn Sterger know about this?
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
NFC North
First I have to say that Tuascher is and always has been a Right Tackle. I have to hope that it was a typo or something, cuz really thats second nature type of information! As for who will start in his place, I don’t think there is much question that Bulaga will start at RT, with Clifton lining up at his usual LT spot. No reason to believe they would sit Clifton to start Bulaga at LT and Sherrod at RT. Even if Clifton is hurt, I would expect that Sherrod would then move into the LT spot. Its the simplest and easiest way to solve the problem and prevents having 2 OL change position on the fly…
WHo has the best start? I see it like this…
Packers 5-1 w/ a possible 4-2 start. They do have some difficult games, but a couple easier ones too.
Bears 3-3, at best. They had better hope they don’t start 0-3 or they will be out of the playoffs before the start of the 2nd month!
Lions 3-3 possibly 2-4. But I’m having a hard time handicapping them right now. I like their team, but not quite sure if they are ready for prime time yet.
Vikes 2-4 at best. Without a QB they won’t have much of a chance to be .500. I like Ponder a little, but he was a reach where he was drafted and is a rookie, so he has to learn the NFL game, speed and complexity. They might be better off starting Webb and giving Ponder the chance to learn from the bench in his rookie season.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Tauscher
yeah… I was a bit hasty typing the whole thing out and unfortunately, you can edit a post after you make one (sucks!). But my question is whether he’d come back or not, so I hope there wasn’t any confusion because of that.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Yes you can.
Go up by the title and you’ll see a little edit button to the right of it.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Yup. Figured it out yesterday.
Thanks though.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Yeah,
I guessed so, considering I didn’t see anything about Tausch at LT.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Regrets... I've had a few. But then again...
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
I think the Vikings could be in a lot of trouble.
Ponder is going to be eased into the starting role. If Leslie Frazier throws him into the fire as is, Ponder’s career might end up derailed almost before it started. Here are Ponder’s advantages: He has a great running back to work with in Adrian Peterson, a solid young WR in Percy Harvin, a deep threat in Bernard Berrian (seriously, don’t take him off fly routes). Ponder also has a good but not amazing TE in Visanthe Shiancoe. After that…
Disadvantages: an OL that more or less fell apart at the end of last season. Hutchinson and Herrera ending up on IR within weeks of each other was one of the worst things that could have happened for Adrian Peterson. Losing one interior guard with Hutchinson’s ability is hard. Losing both starting guards? That’s even worse, especially when you don’t know which down Bryant McKinnie will bother to show up for. Loadholt is…incomplete, Sullivan is still coming along, and Cooper is too.
We’ll see just how far the Vikings go with Ponder, but in reality, I think Minnesota ends up no better than 9-7 this year, and 5-11 at worst. They have a ton of talent, but bad/horrific QB play doomed them almost from the starting gate last year.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 16, 2011 1:01 AM CDT reply actions
Fair assessment...
But if you look at everything that happened last year (Percy hurt for a bit, C. Cook out, Hutch hurt, Herrera, Rice hurt, etc, etc. etc. AND look at Ponder handing the ball off a lot to start, with a low mistake offense being instilled, with Percy as an option, it looks like this year will be better than last! Ponder’s history is he WON"T make as many mistakes as Brett did last year so he will be an improvement even as a rookie! -IMO.
I don’t think they will win the division, or make the playoffs, but will start fast, which was the question. They are putting in a different offense and with Ponder (who is real smart) it will take teams a few weeks to find out how to get to him.
I think MN is in kind of a bad place, they're not quite rebuilding but they're not really contending either
Nobody will agree with me on this, but I think rather than trying to patch together one or two more runs and risk setting the team back on the inevitable rebuild, they should start selling.
Starting with Peterson, he may only be 26 and he is the star of the team but he’s about to get a new deal and RB’s are tricky. He could play well into his 30’s or his career could stall in the next few years. Either way, before the Vikings are serious contenders he’ll be approaching 30 and possibly on the downside. Save some money and possibly get a huge bounty for him from some other team (What the Twins should have done with Mauer)
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 16, 2011 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
They have to ask themselves whether or not
they believe they can contend while AP is still a game changer and worth the money he’ll inevitably make.
All is vanity.
I agree with your opinion of where they stand
I don’t think dealing Peterson is the way to go. Teams go from middle of the road to NFC Championship in a year. Witness our team in 2009. It happens a lot these days.
I think our offense is potent. Ponder will need time but given the OC they have now, the way he developed Matt Ryan who was no superstar in college, I feel he will run a low risk offense that will allow Ponder gain confidence.
On the O line and D secondary side, we definitely need some help and we do have at least $20M we didn’t last year (used on #4). I attribute a lot of the O line problems to our center and losing Birk. The line calls are critical and need serious attention. On D we get Chris Cook back and should be looking for a game changing safety. We do these minor things and we are contenders again IMO.
Offensively,with the weapons we have, and the dismissal of Childress, we should be much harder to figure out. This will only improve the team IMO.
I guess I am saying, yes, we had a bad year last year but I attribute a lot of that to Favre’s lack of protection. The D really didn’t lose too many games for us, it was the lack of the O we had the year prior when #4 had something to prove. I believe last year he went back to that gunslinger mentality which cost us, as did the loss of Rice which decimated the O creativity.
by PurpleJesus on Jul 16, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Ryan was a Great college QB.
He was stuck on a Boston Co team that had next to no talent on it and he carried them to good records! He was a stud and everybody knew it. Don’t even try to put Ponder even close to Ryan in ability! One was a top 5 pick that could have gone #1 overall, the other was a major reach and at best a very late 1st, more likely 2nd round pick that got WAY over-drafted by a desperate QB needy team!
Your offense is gonna be one dimentional for at least a year and even then he will always be the worst starting QB in the NFCN. Rodgers, Stafford and Culter are all far ahead on him in talent! That means the rest of your team has to be that much better and it isn’t now, nor will it be for a long time! You should start the rebuild now…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Jul 16, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not "great", good, not great.
His stats were amongst the better in College FB and were skewed by his senior year where he still threw 19 INTs and had under a 60% completion rate! Ponder, by comparison, never threw close to 19 in any year, and in fact barely surpassed Ryan’s one year total in his whole 4 year college career (had 30 total).
Looking at completion , Ponder is far higher, having completed an average of 65 in his last two years, again against better competition.
One never knows who will be a star or not. Point is, this kid is a hard worker, great student, and has put better than average numbers on the board. He helped start to turn around an FSU team that was beginning to crash and had to compete with Miami and U of F for talent.
Frankly, of all the QB’s in the draft, I wanted Ponder. Cam Newton is a hell of a talent but could be a hell of a headache too! And Gabbert, who the heck knows? The only other one I really liked was Locker and he had a horrible completion % and under threw guys consistently.
Lastly, as for the worst QB in the division…yes, we do right now. Until Ponder has a year under his belt he will start at the bottom. However, we do have the best RB in the division by far…
by PurpleJesus on Jul 16, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
To be honest, it seems like Viking fans are trying to overcompensate on the Ponder love.
I get being hopeful but I don’t think any of you are truly as high on him as you say you are.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 16, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Optimistic
Is a better word. He has the tools, and the smarts. Was a top QB coming out of high school and worked even harder in college. I like the pick. Not as much as Peterson, or Harvin when they picked them, but I do like it.
by PurpleJesus on Jul 16, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
BLah, blah, blah
I am aware of what Ponder was at FSU! This is the NFL where rookie QB’s are eaten for lunch! A la Manning and Aikman. Ponder will be no different… And honestly I don’t know if he has the intestinal fortitude to survive the beating both mentally and physically to survive!
I had Ponder a distant 2nd as a QB coming out. Well behind Gabbert. I know all about his FSU career and abilities and your GROSSLY over-stating them! Ponder will NEVER be a better QB then Rodgers, Stafford or Cutler. Peterson carried you to a 5 Win season w/ a better QB than Ponder! You’ll be lucky to win 5 again this year!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Hehe
Strohman, you make me laugh….! Sorry, dude. I guess the stats didn’t lie… Nothing to say against reality.
And maybe Ponder won’t be as good as the other 3. We will see. He certainly has shown the ability to excel at both HS and College levels and yet worked even harder than maybe any QB ever academically. Man pushes himself and to say he won’t be “amongst” that group in a few years is giving dedication no credit.
by PurpleJesus on Jul 16, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
3 kinds of stats
Stats, damn stats and lies…
There was a reason Ryan was the #4 overall choice and Ponder was widely thought to be a 2nd round pick and it didn’t all have to do w/ his shoulder injury either! Yeah, Ponder had good stats, he was also playing w/ talent from the football haven of Florida, Ryan was playing w/ a bunch of college players who never had a chance to play in the NFL.
Your dullusional if you think Ponder will ever be more than a game manager or system QB. He just doen’t have elite NFL QB talent!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Ryan was the #3 overall pick.
Just one small correction, Stroh.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 16, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Peterson will follow the same career path as Ahman Green
By 28 he will start having to play w/ nagging injuries that slow him down and by 30 he’ll be done for the most part. Peterson and Green are similar in size and both ran w/ an aggressive ultra-physical style that take a major toll on their bodies! He won’t be like a Thomas Jones who plays well into his 30’s. Both AP and Green were the type of RB who sought out contact and those RB just don’t last.
Trading him might be the best way to go. After another year or 2, his best years will be behind him and they’ll have to overpay him for his least productive years!
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This is what I'm thinking
If they were smart, they would let some other team overpay him and hopefully get a boat load of picks in exchange (Like a reverse of the Herschel Walker trade) I don’t think the Vikings will be terrible, I just think they’ll be a middle of the road team trying to patch together runs until it all falls apart on them. They would be much better off admitting they need to rebuild and then go from there.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 16, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably middle of the road
I would agree for a year or two. Honestly, all this Ponder talk aside… I do think McNabb is somehow going to find his way into MN for a year or two. Not that I like that idea. I just see the writing on the wall.
by PurpleJesus on Jul 16, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
This is kinda what a lot of talking heads are saying too....
it seems to make a lot of sense, and he wouldn’t hurt them at all from where they were in 2010. The real problem is going to be if Frazier has a short leash or not and really needs to put the high-profile rookies out there early to satisfy ownership/fan expectations. I hate the new, almost Week-to-week hot-seast mentality towards coaches in the NFL these days and I think thats part of why so many high-potential guys fall by the wayside.
I guess I’m one of the few Packer fans who think Ponder could be really good. The guy is smart and seems like the leader type.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 16, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't want a veteran QB
I agree Ponder “could” be really good. He didn’t have much talent around him at FSU and still put up a good record.
I would think you could put Webb out there at first...
if they didn’t want Ponder starting right away. Webb showed some stuff and could use a little more time to see what he’s got.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 16, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I like Webb a lot!
He played a tremendous game against Philly last year and everyone was high on him. These same people criticized him for the average game the next week which was only 4 days later! Personally, 4 days isn’t enough for a first time starter to heal and prepare for a second game. I tend to dismiss that second game.
I remember people commenting after Webb’s first start against Philly. the comment “Holy hell, where have they been hiding this guy” comes to mind. It was nice to hear that from a fan of another team. I have hopes for him, and Ponder. I think we aren’t in a horrible place, just not sitting with AR and a SB ring.
Thats why you drafted him a WR?
Becuz he was such a good/great QB? DULLUSIONAL… Take that crap back to the cesspool.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Seriously?
I brought it up, he was just responding to my comment.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 17, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Then don't respond if you're not going to read the whole conversation.
Posting without context makes you look dumb. Nothing he said was wrong in any way. Webb did make some exciting plays, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to see what he can do.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
by Omaha Sun on Jul 17, 2011 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So
Everytime I comment I have to read EVERY comment in that conversation from the beginning?! Screw that… I doubt you do it.
Did you go all the way back to OBS’s comment titled “the vikes could be in alot of trouble”?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Actually, I've read every comment in this thread.
And usually do so. If I was going to comment without reading things, I would probably say so in my post.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
by Omaha Sun on Jul 17, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Appreciate Omaha
He’s just out for me cause I’m a Vikes fan. I am just going to ignore him at this point. Not the conversation I am here to have…
by PurpleJesus on Jul 17, 2011 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No your wearing your purple goggles!
On a Packer site. Go wear them at the cesspool… I don’t want your goggles at APC!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Good idea.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
He's not out for you just cause you're a Vikes fan
He’s like that to everyone. Ignoring is by far the best way to go.
13.
by Wiedmann on Jul 18, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
In reality
They drafted him late (6th rd if I recall) with the “thought” of converting him to a WR because of his freakish ability and 11" hands. He was a QB in college who ran a lot as well.
Do yourself a favor and youtube Joe Webb jump and maybe you will see why they had thoughts of him as a WR with a throw away/practice squad, 6th rd pick.
Webb
Definitely has some skills as a WR. As a QB, not so much!
a throw away/practice squad, 6th rd pick.
This is exacly why the Packers are a very deep and talented team. They don’t treat 6th round picks as throw away/practice squad guys!
James Starks wasn’t a throw away pick… Sure some 6ths don’t make the team or are put on the practice squad, but Thompson definitely doesn’t treat them as throw away picks! He values each and every one of his picks! Thats why so many Packers late round picks succeed and a large part of why we are SB Champs! While the vikes haven’t won a SB… EVER! LOL
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Charlie, you seem quite level headed. Let me explain the difference...
First of all, it kind of sounds like everyone sort of agrees that AP will have 2 more good years. That will put him right around 9000 yards total and only 28 y/o. If he simply hangs around for 4 more, until 32, and averages a dismal 250 yds per year, he will wind up with 10k. That, combined with the NFL single game rushing record and being one of the most bruising RB’s ever, will put him in the HOF. Any argument? Note: 10k for him in his career would be a major disapointment.
Now, conversely, Ahman Green isn’t going to sniff the HOF, because as I said, he was good, not great. To put Peterson as “following” the same career path as Ahman Green isn’t accurate or well thought through.
That is about as clear as I can make my point.
I think this is a matter of personal opinion and semantics.
We believe Green was great, but he wasn’t great long enough to put up HOF numbers due to a bad situation as a young player and injuries. You think because he wasn’t great that long he wasn’t great.
You also mention the single-game rushing record as a reason he should go to thew hall, but dismiss Green’s best 1883 year which is a larger sample size.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Not too mention
Green is one of only 2 NFL RB to ever have 2 90 yd TD runs (Bo Jackson being the other)! I never said Green belongs in the HOF either. He has just over 9000 yds and it usually takes over 10,000 and now days probably over 12,000 yards!
If Green had been in GB from the beginning of his career he would have nealy 12,000 yards and be very much in the discussion for Canton.
Pretty much just bad luck having Holmgren as his HC is whats keeping him from HOF consideration!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Semantics maybe
But the point is, one is headed to the HOF, the other isn’t. That is a fair way of judging “good” versus “great”.
Many players had one “great” year and never made the HOF. I won’t dismiss he had one elite year, said it before in this string. Great back? Over a career? Which is what he brought up, no.
Peterson isn’t headed to the HOF yet. We could have said the same thing of Ahman before the injuries hit.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Peterson isn’t headed to the HOF yet. We could have said the same thing of Ahman before the injuries hit.
Basically what I’ve been saying from the beginning! Yet he continues to ARGUE about it. Some might say thats bein a T—LL. Ahman was every bit as good as AD, averaging only 20+ yds less his 1st 4 in GB than Peterson has his 1st 4 yrs.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Jul 18, 2011 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
To my example
Two more years like he has had and I would say he is close to a lock. That and few mediocre years after put him over 10k.
You mean
Just like if Ahman had been in GB his 1st 2 seasons?!! Ahman would be pushing 12,000 yards! Hows it different? But YOU keep arguing it is different!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
He wasn't
He sat on the bench. Big difference. By that logic, if Kerry Collins started sooner he would be in the HOF. Geez! Your guy broke down after 4 seasons. There was none left, early or later in his career.
Your Projecting
That Peterson will stay healthy… Thats a guess too! Geez! Ahman broke down at 27 and about 2000 touches… Peterson is 26 and has 1300 touches. If he gets another 400 this year, he’ll be probably be facing the same as Green was at 27. When your 22 -25 your body can recover from it, when your pushing late 20’s it doens’t. Its been shown over and over again. RB w/ 400 touches in a season over age 26 never approach that level of production again.
I read an aticle on that a couple years ago. Its about age and touches!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Actually think it was anything over 350 touches.
Anything over that and RB after age 25 or 26 breakdown. Especially the ones like Peterson and Green.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I never really compared Green to Peterson
I think Peterson is the better back. The only thing I would say is that they do have similar styles and that particular style leads to a faster break down. We’re obviously not gonna agree on when Peterson begins to falter as you’re an optimist (Which is understandable) and I’m pessimistic he can keep it up much longer.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 18, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Optimist versus pessimist
Absolutely true.
I guess my point was “following the same career path because of their styles”. That the wear and tear would build up….
Let me try a different route… You know when you tell someone to punch you as hard as you can in the arm? And you tighten up? Well Peterson is sort of like that where he looks to hit first, causing the LB’s etc, to tend to back off and approach him carefully looking to wrap up rather than hit hard. It’s because they DON’T want to get hit by him because of his reputation. It is that in my mind, that makes him the type of back that will squeeze out a few more years than most. Not because he plays all out, balls to the wall.
again..
Your describing exactly the way Ahman ran! Urlacher even said he hated playing Ahman Green when they were in their prime. Cuz Green ran the exact same way. Ahman attacked LB just like AD!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Started for Green at 27...
Can start any time! Tomlinson was lucky to have lasted til 29. Peterson’s upright running style means more hits and more susceptible.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Well again
Opinion, but I think he has 6 years left in him (until 32). 4 good ones and two average to mediocre. I would probably talk trade around 29-30 y/o.
2 good
2 mediocre and probably injury riddled years.
Jamal Lewis had his 2000 yd season (with 400 touches) at age 25 or 26 and was never the same… If Peterson approaches 400 touches again this season, like Ahman did, he faces the same fate! Been proven over and over.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
LOL!... sorry!
Apparently you haven’t looked at Peterson and how he is a rock! Nobody, ever, hit as hard as Peterson does and still carries the ball 300 times a year.
I don’t doubt by 32 or so he will start to decline. I just am a realist and have to say he is the finest specimen at RB that maybe the game has ever seen. To say he can’t handle the hits in his condition is speculation. He has shown nothing but the ability to hurt people more than they hurt him and that will prolong his career as most LB’s will tell you, they really don’t want to hit him because they are concerned with what Peterson doles out!
by PurpleJesus on Jul 16, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
You're being a realist? And you think he has six years until he starts to decline?
Do you know what the term “Realist” means?
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 16, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I do...
It’s not like it hasn’t been done before. Look at Emitt Smith. I am just saying Peterson is an anomaly. To say he has 2 years left is ridiculous.
by PurpleJesus on Jul 16, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Good Lord
Emmitt Smith was not any thing like Peterson or Green as a RB. He avoided hits, he didn’t seek them out and deliver them! He also had the best OL in NFL history! He has 2 good years before his body starts to break down and another 2 years of injury plagued very mediocre production. 4 years of production and he will be used up, just like AHman Green was at age 30!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Damn..
…I wish there was a way to place a 4 year bet in escrow!
by PurpleJesus on Jul 16, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Go.
Look at Ahman Green’s first four years with the \Packers comapared to Adrian Peterson’s first four years with the Vikings… Theyre even. Stroh’s got a point here…
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
Ahman, was never "elite" nor mentioned as the best possibly ever
He also had one “elite” year.
His first “6” years he had 6009 yards, Peterson had 5782 in 4 years. Don’t think that’s even. Peterson accomplished that in two fewer years and was rookie of the year. Also set single game record for mist yards in a game ever!
Don't get me wrong
Not saying Ahman wasn’t good, just not thought of in the same way as Peterson. He had a few really good years and one elite year. But never came right out of college and dominated the way AP did.
AP has a chance to be one of the best ever. I know as Packer fans that sucks, but we all may look back one day and all say we were glad to see someone like him play. The kid is a good kid, gives it is all, is never a headache and stays out of trouble. Not a lot of NFL players like that around and that’s a shame given the money they all make.
Its not Ahmans fault that Holmgren didn't play him!
He would have sat Peterson too. He was an absolute stickler about fumbling! Thats the reason he didn’t play in Seattle.
Give Greens numbers a look starting in GB! He averages 1421 yds per season his 1st 4 years. Peterson average 1440 something.
Green in his 1st 4 yrs had a ypc of 4.65 in GB. Peterson 4.8. Peterson still hasn’t touched Greens 1883. Green also is one of only 2 RB’s in NFL history w/ 2 90 yd TD runs (Bo Jackson is the other). If Ahman had been in GB his 1st 2 seasons he would likely have about 12,000 career rushing yards and be a serious candidate for Canton!
Ahman led the NFL in rushing for a 5 year stretch from ’00 thru ’04.
Looking at them, there is little to seperate them in size or ability!
Green 6’0 218, ran a 4.3 40 (and reportedly run a pre-draft workout 4.2). I can’t explain why he wasn’t drafted till the 3rd, but most likely playing in an option offense at Neb and his fumbling.
Peterson checks in at 6’1.5 217, runs a 4.4 40. He also has a more upright running style than Green which lends him to taking more direct hits.
Peterson has more work to do to become a more productive NFL RB. He has an advantage over Green based only on Greens lack of use in Seattle behind Rickey Watters.
Ahman was the most dominant RB in the NFL for a 5 years stretch. Right now AP is probably behind Chris Johnson in their short NFL careers.
There is absolutely no reason that if Ahman had played his 1st 2 seasons he would be very much in serious discussion for Canton! He was just as dominant from ’00 to ’04 as Peterson has been.
One more thing… In ’04 was when Ahman started to have trouble w/ injuries. He played most of that season w/ knee tendinitis and missed a game. He was 27 yrs old at the time. Due to their very similar running styles there is every reason to think their careers will follow similar paths.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
No perhaps not
But Green was damn good. Injuuries just took the game out of him.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Just like they will w/ Peterson!
Its inevitable for RB like Peterson and Green.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Greens injuries started to become a factor at 27.
Same w/ Peterson give or take a year based on luck and little else!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
He didnt start his first two years!
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
Its not just that he didn't start.
He barely played his 2 years in Seattle. He had all of 61 carries (in 30 games) for 321 yards in Seattle. Being young and healthy like AP has been, Green may well have added another 2600 to 3000 yds to his rushing total. Pushing him tp or beyond the 12,000 yard mark and into Canton.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Let me clarify..
It is far easier to sit on the bench two years and learn. To come in straight out of college and light the world on fire puts you in that “elite” class, especially when you back it up with a second year and break the single game rushing record.
Ahman was a good player. No taking that away. My point was, he took the much easier route and learned the system for two years before displaying his talent. No arguing that coming in as a rookie and just dominating isn’t in a different class…. I hope that makes sense?
RB
Isn’t a position you have to learn! Either you have the ability to be a good or great RB or you don’t! You don’t learn to have running instincts. You don’t learn to have great vision. You don’t learn to run w/ physicality. You don’t learn any of that… You have it or you don’t! The only reason he sat for 2 years was becuz he put the ball on the grass, just like Peterson did! Holmgren wouldn’t put up w/ fumbling!
RB is by FAR the easiest position to make an immediate impact as a rookie! Becuz either you have the abilities to be a good or great RB or you don’t! There was nothing he as a rookie he had to learn!
Ahman Green was a GREAT player! He had everything that Peterson has! And better speed to boot. If he had been drafted by the Packers he would have started day 1 in GB and would right now have about 12,000 career rushing yards!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
He had a great year
IMO, not a great player. Good, not great. One great year does not make a great player. Much like Terrel Davis and he had two great years. Never, ever would I call him great! Good, not great!
And there are things to learn at RB. Blocking schemes, reading pass pressure, blocking assignments, etc. It may be one of the easiest positions to learn offensively (less the O line) but still things to learn unless you have that god given skill to make people miss even if you make mistakes.
Please!
Now your just arguing! Greens 1st 4 years were almost Identical to Peterson’s! So if Peterson is elite, then so was Green! Is 20 yards a season a big difference? Thats about all that seperates Green from Peterson!
RB routinely make large impacts as rookies! Green would have too if Holmgren had given him a chance. But he ended up in Holmgrens doghouse for fumbling! Green had all the knowledge and ability to make an impact his rookie year just like Peterson did!
Go argue this over at the cesspool!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Vegas probably has something for that....
they have a way to bet on anything!
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 16, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe they have some kind of service...
where you can do that. They hold your money or something.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 16, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude
Ahman Green was a beast of a RB, same as Peterson. He was a workout WARRIOR and put in as much or more work into staying in shape as any NFL RB did! He even won some NFL physique of the year awards (not that they mean squat), but he worked VERY HARD and had a GReat powerful body! They are the same type of RB! Both relied on power, speed and physicality to be the best RB in the NFL. Petersons is going down EXACTLY the same career path as Ahman Green!
And Green still has the best career of them to date. Green had 1883 years in 03, let me know when Peterson beat that! Till then go on back to the cesspool!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
We can agree to disagree
You hear the same analysts I do. You hear what they say about Peterson and how virtually no one ever was in his class. And certainly no one ever put Ahman Green in Peterson’s ballpark. Except you…
by PurpleJesus on Jul 16, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
They were very similar in production and running style!
that makes puts them in the same class!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Statistically
Nobody, ever, hit as hard as Peterson
The guy DOES seem to dish out hits on defenders from time to time (I still remember that opening day Browns game in ’09 when he threw that defender nearly into the bleachers on the sideline cause he was in the way).
Not sure how that bodes for longevity but I don’t think, at this point, there is any reason to think he’s declining. I would just say that statistically, RBs start to slow down and get lagging injuries in their late 20’s and early 30’s. Of course, Peterson could play well into his 30’s without any problems. Would be a lucky and blessed career if he did for his position!
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 16, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree
He has the physique to do it if anyone can. Almost like he enjoys hitting people to get an extra yard or two.
Statistically I agree. Most RB’s are done after a few years. I just don’t see him as a statistic probably because, as you said, there is nothing showing he is slowing down after 4 years.
Almost like he enjoys hitting people to get an extra yard or two.
You just describe Ahman Green! And Ahman had a great physique too. Peterson has nothing on him but a 2 year head start!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Stroh
I get it… You like Ahman. He’s no AD, not even mentioned in the same sentence by any of the analysts. That alone should tell you that he wasn’t elite. AD gets that mentioned all the time, either the best in the NFL, or possibly the best of all time. Time will tell….
Seriously?
He wasn’t elite? For a 5 year stretch he was the best RB in the NFL! How can you IGNORE his stats?! His 1st 4 years w/ the Packers was just as good as AD (All Day). Peterson averaging 1450 or so per season, and Green 1421. So if Green wasn’t elite then neither is Peterson! Analysts don’t give him the credit now cuz he’s not HOF worthy due to not playing his 1st 2 NFL seasons. When he was playing for the Packers alot the analysts said he was the best RB in the league!
For what its worth, I love AD. After the Badgers, OU is my favorite team. Compare their stats. They are basically the same RB. Peterson is off to a great start to his career just like Green was. Like I said Greens injuries stated to become an issue in "04, at age 27. Peterson is approaching that age. Tomlinson was on a better career path and he started to decline at 29 or 30. If Peterson is lucky he might stay healthy that long, but I wouldn’t count on it!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
UNDERSTATEMENT!
Fortunately, we didn’t lose Sitton and Wells… (shudders)
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 16, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
No, just fifteen other starters.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 16, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
There really isn't any need for hyperbole.
Only about half of the IR were starters :-)
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
So is a Free Agent QB completely out of the cards for the Vikes?
No one here has mentioned the possibility, but the rumors still abound.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
TERRELL PRYOR
SECRET WEAPON
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
I think Dane Sanzenbacher would definitely help them.
It would also make Ted Glover ecstatic.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 16, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I actually think its more likely than not....
but who knows what will happen in what is supposed to be an insane and chaotic FA period. As much as the lockout sucks, I’m kind of looking forward to this FA period just to see how crazy it gets.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 16, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Like a week
to sign free agents.. Its gonna be hecktic. Someone should put together a list of UFA’s we should target.
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
I hate to see it
But I think McNabb will wind up with us. Lord I hope not… Then we throw away another year or two.
I might take a flyer on Terrell Pryor or even Vince Young. VY is a winner no matter what you say. Haven’t looked up the exact stats but I believe he is like 30-19 in his career. May not be exact, but close…. Could be a headache though…
My first choice, if they are going to go try and get someone, is Orton. Guy has the skills and proved he can put numbers on the board last year with a BAD team!
This I will agree with...
McNabb was god-awful last year. I don’t see him helping any team much anymore!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Neither did the Iggles
when they traded him within their division.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Stroh, WHO was McNabb throwing to?
Shanahan surrounded him with complete CRAP at receiver and to make matters worse, Clinton Portis got hurt.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 17, 2011 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think that makes much difference
with McNabb, anymore.
I think the Eagles knew what they were doing,
and I think they were right — as is Strohman.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
So what you're saying
is that Washington’s absolutely crappy WRs had NO bearing on McNabb’s performance whatsoever? REALLY?
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 17, 2011 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
NO bearing ... whatsoever?
No.
I didn’t say anything more than that, when the Eagles traded McNabb to the Redskins, they obviously didn’t (just as Strohman stated in his opinion of D-Mac) “see him helping any team much anymore,” with which justification they traded him to a team in their own division.
At that time, I decided that I thought they were right,
and I continue to hold that opinion.
Now, that having been said, yeah, I suppose that if you follow that to its logical conclusion, then I don’t think that a couple of good receivers would make enough of a difference to change that much;
though, I didn’t, and wouldn’t, say NO bearing … whatsoever!
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
If the Skins had some good receivers,
And were only a QB away from 10-6, 11-5 territory, Reid probably never makes that trade, though. Maybe he traded him to the Skins because he knew they weren’t going to win the division regardless of the QB.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
This
That offense is weak. Period. Weak receivers, pretty weak running backs, and a weak offensive line. The strength of that team should be the defense but they couldn’t get their best player to buy into their system.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe, but,
Reid apparently didn’t see McNabb helping the Eagles much anymore, either.
But, regardless, I still think McNabb is washed up, myself.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
He felt it was time to move on, I guess.
He thought Kolb was going to be good enough for them to be around the mark, at least no worse than Mcnabb would have been. Turned out the other QB learnt how to throw in prison.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Anyone who wants VY is crazy.
He just winz games…against shoddy teams, has no playoff wins, and he had to be replaced twice by a QB who’s almost old enough to be my father (Kerry Collins).
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 17, 2011 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Can't argue too much here
He has been trouble. Haven’t looked at who he beat although he was in a tough division and the record is impressive.
Vince Young
I hate when people say the guy is a winner. Football is the ultimate team sport and while QB is arguably the most important player, they’re hardly the only reason for a win or loss. That being said, Young had some downright awful games and it would seem contradictory to say he won those games.
That being said, I agree Orton is the best option for a stop gap QB. I think throwing Ponder into the fray right from the get go is a bad move. I think that line would get him killed and possibly hurt his confidence.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 17, 2011 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Valid points
I don’t necessarily agree with all the VY stuff, but hey, that’s your opinion.
I’d like to get Orton but I don’t think they will unless they can keep Rice first. I also don’t think Den will let him go for a third rd pick which is all I think MN would offer.
by PurpleJesus on Jul 18, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Giving up a 3rd rounder would be dumb in my opinion.
Seeing as he’s not going to be the future of the team and may only be there one or two years until Ponder is groomed. You can get a free agent to fill that role, no point wasting a possible building block.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 18, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Tho that tends to be the Vikes way.
Trading a 3rd to get Moss, only cuz Sidney Rice wasn’t ready… I hope they do trade for Orton… He’s been a starter on 4 teams and never led a team to a playoff appearance. He just doesn’t have what it takes and would waste a couple more years, while all the old guys get older!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
2005 Bears
He did it for Chicago, but he didn’t play in the Divisional Round of the Playoffs. Only once though…..
I ran out of quotes.....
If he led them there
You have to ask WHY he wasn’t the starter in the playoffs. So did Orton really lead them, or just happen to be the QB at the end and they went back to Grossman?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
You know what...
Orton is actually a quality QB. I won’t go so far as to say he’s top tier, but you don’t need to be top tier to be considered playoff calibre. Just look at (another Bears QB) Jim McMahon!
But I’ve thought about this at some length. No way the Broncos are giving Orton up without someone they can build a team on in some other aspect. Who in the world could the Vikes possibly offer that would make Elway say, “Okay!” Tebow looks to have the makings of a QB to win at least as many games as they could with Orton, but who falls in the pecking order after?
The Vikes are far more likely to look elsewhere, unless they’re willing to give up someone substantial.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
I've thought about Orton alot too...
More in regards the the Cards since I live in Phx. I don’t see anything in Orton to make me believe he is the answer for a team looking for a playoff berth (which team isn’t). I don’t know if Denver trades him or not, about a 50/50 proposition to me, but I would look elsewhere for a QB! Kolb, Hasselbeck, and Palmer would be preferrable to me.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Hasselbeck, really?
Don’t get me wrong, he’s not bad, but his best days are behind him, it seems. As for Palmer, if he does get traded away – and the Bengals seem really bullish on the issue – wouldn’t he go somewhere in exchange for another QB? Doesn’t seem like the Bengals have any backup plan for QB.
Kolb seems like the best man for the Cards out of that list. Probably the only one who’ll inspire any confidence with their receivers (merited or not).
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Bengals just drafted Dalton.
He’s their plan at QB. And they have Carson’s little brother for whatever that means. Hasselbecks best days are behind him, Orton just has never had any “days” to be excited about (playoffs or playoff wins). I think Hasselbeck would be a good stopgap for a year, maybe 2.
Most Cards fans seem to want Kolb, but there is a loud and very vocal minority that hate him, based only on 7 games. Try pointing out that Rodgers had some inconsistencies his 1st year as a starter, but they’re not reasonable, much less informed. Some of them actually think they should start Skelton this year… Even if it means they likely lose Fitz!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Too early for the Cards to give up
I mean, c’mon, it’s the NFC West! You’d think they’d try to get the best guy available.
As for Orton, look, he’s not the answer, but everywhere he’s played, he’s done more than was expected. Hell, he outperformed Cutler by the numbers and that’s who he was surrendered for. But he constantly had to sit behind Grossman because Lovie just didn’t want to give up on him and had a tough time with the Broncos because their attack was one dimensional without Moreno, which was most of the time. Orton is top of my list of underrated QBs, who aren’t top tier, next to Kitna and either Gradkowski or Shaun Hill – not brilliant, but damn good in a pinch.
The Cards shouldn’t want him, but there’s a few teams who could justify starting him for sure.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Orton has started 4 seasons.
Still no playoff starts or wins. That, along w/ the fact that yet another team is ready to move forward w/ someone else, basically tells me all I need to know about Orton’s ability.
Yeah a couple teams could justify Orton starting, theres a lack of quality QB’s in the NFL! If you want a guy who can put up stats w/o winning or getting in the playoffs he’s perfect.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
No, he could get a team in the wild card
just couldn’t win it. lol
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
He has no playoff starts... None.
So if he got a team to the wild card how come he wasn’t the starter? That in itself, if true, is damning evidence of his play… Not to mention that he sat for a few seasons behind Wrecks Grossman.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
The Cards + anyone decent
could probably content for a playoff berth in that division.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Maybe
But I don’t think that will be the case much longer. Bradford and St. L are gonna be the best team in that division VERY soon, IMO. I don’t think 8 or 9 wins gets a team in the playoffs from the NFCW even this year.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Yeah, true
but we still don’t know what they’re going to do about the receiver situation – big deficit there. I’d be interested to see Bradford lead the rams forward, though. Just not until the Packers cream ’em.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
WR position
In St. L. isn’t great, but its not bad either. I expect them to sign a FA WR to be the #1 WR, meanwhile Mark Clayton was having a terrific year w/ Bradford prior to his injury and Amendola is a poor mans Welker. One WR away from actually having a good group.
They are still a few years from competing w/ the Packers… We’ll cream’em! LOL
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
STL has a bunch of good receivers, but no real #1.
Clayton, Amendola, Alexander all proved that they can play last year, plus they drafted 3 pass-catchers in the draft. They still need that top tier guy to really scare defenses, but Bradford does have some options.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
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Robinson, Clayton & Amendola all FAs.
So I guess the question is who comes back and gets released? All this talk about who acqueires the big ticket FA WRs out there, don’t see wht STL wouldn’t fugure in that convo.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Revenge 4 Favre's
I’d be interested to see Bradford lead the rams forward, though. Just not until the Packers cream ’em.
six-pick playoff game!
Sorry if that subject line got anyeverybody agitated for a bit, haha.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
I was gonna mention the Rams, too,
but, decided to read the rest of the new comments first.
If the Cards don’t want to go back to what led CHFF to rank them #32 in their all-time rankings of the franchises (you’ve already seen this link, Stroh, lol), they had better get something figured out in a damned hurry!
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Well, back to my original point
VY is available for nothing but…. Also, if they got Orton, and he did well, I wouldn’t see it as a two year thing. More like a 3 or 4 year thing while Ponder develops. Not a bad investment when you can that much out of him. If you don’t, then you trade him for a 5th or 6th if he doesn’t do what he did last year and effectively that is equal to a 4th rounder.
I don't think you sit Ponder for 3 or 4 years
The only reason Rodgers sat for so long was because of Favre holding the franchise hostage. It ended up working out fine but you’re gonna have to pay him quite a bit and it doesn’t make sense to have that much invested in QB for that long.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 18, 2011 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably not
But, but, but, the decision becomes are you trying to see if you can make a run (like if Rice signs again) or building for long term. The answer to that soves the riddle.
That's where we disagree
I think the Vikings need to rebuild rather than take one or two more half assed runs at a title. Every team in the division is younger and seemingly getting better while the Vikings seem to be on the downslide. They’ll make for tough games but I think they’ll still end up in third or fourth.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 18, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think we disagree there
I think they do need to rebuild but not in a major way. They need some OL help, retain Edwards and Rice, get a safety and they are close to a contender. While they do that, they develop P. Williams replacement and the QB and then maybe they can make a playoff run. Not a give me but not a major overhaul either.
Why is Orton available?
He’s on his 2nd team in just a couple years that is ready to give up on him and move on w/ someone else! Teams don’t give up on QB’s that can lead teams to the playoffs!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Oh... nevermind.
I just argued the same thing, kinda.
Okay, let’s make that argument though. When Dumervil went down, they suffered a sincere lack of defensive pressure. You have an – by all accounts – aging Vikes defense with some quality guys. That could be a trade, if Tebow illicits that’s much confidence in Denver.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
They could trade Jarred Allen
and Elway just might go for it. :)
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Really,
Cause isn’t that what the Eagles are doing with Kolb?
by Cardsfan928 on Jul 18, 2011 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions
NOT even close...
Kolb is available cuz Vick played like an MVP last year! Not even close to the same thing! But don’t let that stop you from arguing it… What has Tebow done to show he is the answer at QB, like Vick has? Kolb probably wouldn’t have even lost the starting job if he hadn’t been injured.
DRC for Kolb, straight up according to Bickley! Better get used to Kolb being your QB!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
My NFC North prediction for the first 6 games:
- Jay Cutler will do the majority of his breathing through his mouth.
After Further Review.........
The Bears Still Suck
by smackwaterjack on Jul 16, 2011 6:46 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
And he will still be a douche.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 16, 2011 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I voted for the Vikings
My vote wasn’t based on who was going to have the best record after 6 games, it was who has the easiest schedule. I initially thought that was what the poll was about. I think the Vikings have the easiest schedule after the first 6 games, but they will still have the worst record. For starters, the Vikings are rebuilding at the most important position on their roster: QB. Maybe Ponder does turn out to be a good QB in the NFL, the truth is that few QB’s have ever been truly successful rookie QB’s. I recognize that they have Adrian Peterson, but what if Sidney Rice isn’t there anymore? What if Percy Harvin continues to miss what seems to be every other game? What if Ponder makes the usual rookie QB mistakes? Add in the fact that the Vikings have a new Offensive and Defensive Coordinator, we can see the management is starting over as well. The odds are simply not in the Vikings favor to be successful. So, even though they have the easiest schedule through the first 6 games, they’ll come out with the worst record.
I ran out of quotes.....
Assuming they don't acquire anyone new at QB
Also, Joe Webb hasn’t figured into anyone’s conversation at this stage and while I’m not saying the Vikings think he’s the answer, he did show a few things in the crunch last year.
Ultimately, I think the Packers might be the team with the easiest first six. The Bears are still going to have to answer a few questions on their team that won’t be easily done in the first six and though I expect a battle there, I can still see the Pack on top in that match. The Broncos have some pieces, but they just can’t outlast teams through four quarters yet. The Panthers aren’t even in rebuilding, so much as in triage. And the Rams are definitely a rebuilding team and might be even deeper in that process, depending on which of their free agent receivers remain, if any. Oh and the Saints… great team, but I’m not sure their defense can hold off the Packers.
I can see the Pack going 5-1, The Bears going 3-3, and the Lions and Vikes going 2-4. But I’ll put an asterisk next to those last two teams because a fix at QB could put them at 3-3 as well.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
PurpleJesus
I like Webb alot! He played a tremendous game against Philly last year and everyone was high on him.
Webb was drafted as a WR, not a QB. He has a strong arm, but nobody really game planned for his passing. They game planned for his running ability more than anything else, IMO.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Well, if you're right on that Stroh
it would seem to make the argument that a FA QB would be compulsory to their plans. If Webb illicits that little confidence and Jackson’s clearly not going to be a Vike, do they put Ponder out there sight unseen in a professional game?
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
It's not like he'd be asked to carry them.
Hand off to Peterson 35 times a game, play action, keep the designed pass plays simple…
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Yeah, if they use Ponder like Ryan was used his rookie season in Atlanta or how Flacco was used his rookie season in Baltimore, he could be fine. And if they can somehow keep Rice, which seems unlikely, that could help Ponder quite a bit too. I actually think their offense will be pretty good. What I think is going to take a hit is their defense. It’s aging, and I’m not convinced that they’ll be able to stop teams when they need too.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Peterson
already probably approaches 30 touches a game. Thats the best way to ensure Peterson doesn’t last very long. RB can only take so much punshment. If they want Peterson to last they need to keep his touches around 20 or so.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
They may start doing that...
as Gerhardt develops more though.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 18, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably why they drafted him
I agree w/ that. I just don’t think Gerhart is that good. Probably reached for him a little too. Gerhart could run over college LB, that aint happening in the NFL.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Gerhart
Averages 3.9 YPC so far in his career, no reason to think he won’t get any better with a season under his belt, although Hutchinson’s decline will hurt Minny’s run game more than most think
by Cardsfan928 on Jul 18, 2011 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure about how he got those yards...
…but wasn’t he pretty much a 3rd down back? If most of the runs were in 3rd down situations where a pass is expected, then 3.9 is a terrible ypc.
13.
And 3.9 is somehow good?
No, its prettty bad actually. Theres alot of reasons to believe he won’t get better. He isn’t fast or elusive in any way. He’s a big power RB, who in college could run over LB, that won’t happen in the NFL. Gerhart will never amount to much, IMO. And w/ no QB to speak of teams are gonna load the box!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
However they work it out,
Just run the ball and let Ponder make easy reads.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
They can TRY
But you still can’t hide a QB’s lack of experience! Hell I hope they do try to pound the ball… Just means Peterson will not be around much longer!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Jul 19, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't
I would sit Ponder and get a vet for a year, maybe 2 while he can grow into an NFL QB.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Hmmm...
Falcons and Saints are tough! Let alone Bears who can be competitive with you. As I said somewhere else in this string, I give you 4-2 (if I had to bet my life) and a possible 3-3 just because it is a tough schedule.
I still think you will win the division. I think the Bears will be maybe 10-6, Detroit and us will battle it out for third with 8-8 getting that and probably the other at 6-10 bringing up the rear.
8-8 for the vikes?
Thats REALLY optimistic… I would say dellusional. I can easily see Detroit at 8-8. The bears 9-7 or 10-6 at best.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
You can keep trying
Not taking the bait… You’ve been Stroh’ed out!
by PurpleJesus on Jul 17, 2011 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gotta give you some props bro
I DEFINENTLY would’ve lost it by now.
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
by arodgb on Jul 17, 2011 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
It's just a shame what he does
He trashes up your site with stuff like this. Remove his posts and it is all decent football conversation.
Well
Not trying to antagonize you here, but you have a fellow who fits that definition over at your site… Remove HIS posts, and you have an good Vikings site that we Packer fans can go over and talk football with.
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
I'm sure he knows that
And seeing how the guy is the head of the site, there’s not much anyone can do about him.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 17, 2011 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Still
He shouldn’t be complaining about Stroh and him ‘trashing our site’, when his entire blog is dedicated to hating the Packers.
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
by arodgb on Jul 17, 2011 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think Gates is secretly a Packer fan.
Seriously, every other word he types is a dig at the Packers. He’s like that little kid in school that is always making fun of the girl he likes.
E-5-1-50
by mike_o on Jul 18, 2011 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not just hating the Packers
Also, conspiracy theories about why everyone hates the Vikings.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 18, 2011 6:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
In all honesty, I wasn’t complaining about Stroh, all your own people were. Just look at all the green above any time someone got on him.
I just expressed concern about what he is doing to your site. Of the 150 posts here, probably 50 are him just trying to antagonize and I simply wouldn’t let him get to me.
And yes, if I had my way, there would be a different regime at the top of DN. I see their job as writing interesting articles and making sure the posts are within guidelines. Not play army and retaliate whenever possible. That’s kid stuff and I would hope we are beyond that.
by PurpleJesus on Jul 18, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Point Taken
NOW GO BACK TO THE CESSPOOL!! Jk. But your welcome around here.
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
by arodgb on Jul 18, 2011 10:36 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
What your doing
Is what got me called a troll from my first post at the cesspool and got me banned after 3 comments! So like I said treat people the way I was treated. And I haven’t done anything nearly like calling you a troll here. I asked you to take the purple goggles off on a PACKER site! Nothing more!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Excuse me?
I highly doubt that! I am simply having level headed, conversations about where I think my team stands. Not trolling, not bad mouthing your team, not anything negative. Far, far different than what you did.
DON’T EVER COMPARE ME TO YOU!!! EVER!
Like I said
Exactly what got me banned from the cesspool. And thinking that Ponder is going to be good this year and the vikes even 8-8 is not being very realistic! Nod\ody but the group at the cesspool think they have nearly that good a team!
I didn’t say you badmouthed the Packers! I asked that you take off your purple blinders, something you haven’t done! I’ll do whatever I damn well please and like I said, what your doing here is what got me called a troll from the 1st comment and banned after 3 comments!
Feel free to retrun from whence you came! The Cesspool…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
You do realize that what you're promoting is exactly what many don't like about Gates right?
It seems like you only want posters from other teams as long as they agree with you. That’s boring, there’s nothing wrong with another teams fan coming here and presenting their opinion.
by Charlie Kelly on Jul 18, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
All I'm promoting
Is that he takes off the purple blinders when he comes here. I never said he can’t be here or called him a troll.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
There is nothing he said that is completely homeristic and not worthy of any discussion,
so there’s no need to keep dismissing him and telling him to leave.
Do I agree with what he’s saying? No. But he’s not saying the Vikings are going to the Super Bowl and calling Ponder the MVP.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
by Omaha Sun on Jul 18, 2011 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Use of the Word 'Cesspool' In This Article Alone Count
Stroh – 13
arodgb – 1
PurpleJesus – 0
Good Stuff!
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
by arodgb on Jul 18, 2011 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
It is a cesspool...
Who cares anyway, this is APC!
I think he IS being a total homer thinking 8-8 in realistic! Or Ponder is gonna lead them as a rookie. Or that Peterson is Elite and Ahman is good!
Take of the Purple Blinders!!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
And
14 for Stroh. Ill have another update along here shortly.
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
by arodgb on Jul 18, 2011 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, please keep us updated on the progress of the usage of "that word"*
*I don’t want to be included in the scoreboard.
13.
Thats Cheating.
Wiedmann – 1
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
by arodgb on Jul 18, 2011 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm sick of all the filth coming out of your mouth...
…it’s like you’re lungs are some sort of cessp…hey, wait a minute, you’re trying to trick me into saying it. Who made you the scorekeeper?
13.
1.5 is Wiedmann's tally.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Another!
1 for msc32887…
aaron rodgers gets 2 concussions in a season and wins superbowl mvp...jay cutler goes down in the biggest game of his career with menstrual cramps, than fakes an injury and an MRI... Need I say any more?
IT'S A TRAP!
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 19, 2011 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude, what did I just say?
Ignore.
13.
by Wiedmann on Jul 18, 2011 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry!
Caught me in a brain fart! His comparing himself to me just sent my tail on fire! Won’t happen again!
by PurpleJesus on Jul 19, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
In all fairness...
These posts do get long and it can be fairly difficult to keep ones place within them if people get into the heated arguments that happen way too often here.
If we don’t want to be called a “cesspool” like any other number of sites, the people in the community itself should make it a more welcoming place to outsiders and other Packer fans alike.
by msc32887 on Jul 19, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No doubt Falcons and Saints are tough
But against a Packers team with most of their injured lineup recovered? They achieved what they did short-handed. And with young defensive players whove added the highest pressure experience you can have in the league, meaning less penalties (one significant hindrance in some games)?
It’s just difficult for me to imagine the Packers going any lower than 4-2 in those first six.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Like I said
If I had to bet my life, 4-2. And I get your point about the injuries.
This year is going to be tough with the compressed camp. teams with more difficult offenses are going to struggle early. We may be in for some surprises, to say the least!
by PurpleJesus on Jul 18, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Thats a good point too....
could be some crazy games in the first month due to changes in the offseason schedule. Plus, GB hasn’t exactly lit up the league in the first halves of the last two seasons. Seems they always make a late run while they flounder around .500 mid-season. Hopefully that changes this year and they stay consistent and healthy.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 18, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
GB hasn’t exactly lit up the league in the first halves.
IMO, that is McCarthy’s plan to continue to build as the season goes on. And end up peaking for the playoffs. I would like to see them start a little faster too, but I do like that they seem always be peaking at playoff time.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Jul 18, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, and we’ve never ended the season winning the SB. Let’s hope that the great play we saw in the playoffs continues into next season. Though, I always remember hearing when McCarthy was first hired that one of his weaknesses was that it always took him some time to adjust.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2011 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Peaking
We were peaking in 09 too, just ran into Warner who had the game of his life, like Rodgers, that beat us in a shootout. Packers could have went places in 09 playoffs too. Tho I don’t think they were SB ready yet…
Never heard anything like that about McCarthy. Got anything to back it up?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I remember reading it a couple places way back when he was first hired. Not really sure if I really buy into it, but the team does always seem to be much better in the second half of the season. Though, that could be for a number of reasons.
Yeah, I think we would have probably lost to the Saints. The defense wasn’t where it needed to be for us to go to the SB.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 19, 2011 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Remember how I got laughed at
for suggesting that McCarthy has a season-plan, and not just game-plans?
I was never swayed by the ridicule, and still believe it to this day, as I believe that any good coach has such a plan.
It is logical, it makes good sense, and I would be highly disappointed if Coach Mac didn’t have one!
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Yep!
Remember it well… It IS a season plan. Totally agree w/ you that its his plan to peak for the playoffs!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
That, and
keeping the running backs fresh for November and beyond, by limiting his run calls in September and October, among other things.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
IIRC,
Tom Landry’s cowBoys teams in the ’70s did that a lot.
I seem to recall that they were almost always somewhere around 4-3 at mid-season, and then finished around 10-4 or 11-3.
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
What's up APC
So now that your team is the reigning champion, how do you think they hold up with a target on their back, and I also wondered with so many starters going down for you last season, and the backups stepping in and up, do any of you think the chemistry isn’t as good as it could be with your starters?
I think the team will be fine.
We did win the SB last year, but we didn’t win the division. Heck, we barely made the playoffs as a 6 seed. I think that will keep the team hungry: proving that they really are the best team in the division and ultimately the conference.
As for the guys coming back, I don’t think it will be too much of a problem. If anything, having back-ups who are proven to be capable of getting the job done will just increase the competition and result in a better team. Plus those guys had to sit out and watch their teammates go all the way. I bet those guys want to be able to take part in that and be there to help the team do it again. I think TT has assembled a roster of high character guys for the most part that just want to win.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
by Omaha Sun on Jul 17, 2011 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Most of the backups are the starters now. And moreso, 70% of the players have been in the team for 3 years now, and the way McCarthy and Capers utilizes packages, there aren’t many clear starters, outside of the QB, OL and the star players.
Even Jennings has some packages where he doesn’t play. In jumbo personel, when there’s only 1 WR, it’s Nelson that lines up, not Jennings.
And regarding the target being on their back, I don’t worry about that as much as I worry about them being overconfident. Our teams is still to put on a complete regular season, every year there’s one area of the team that really struggles.
If the passing game is going well, the running game is struggling. When the offense is clicking, the run D lets us down. If not, the ST are usually costing us games..
IMHO we have the most talented team in the league, but if there’s one thing this team is not, is consistant. We have the talent to win games by large margins but we rarely do, because there’s always one area that doesn’t click, and it’s always a different area…
"IT IS TIME"
by PackersRS on Jul 18, 2011 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'm not too worried about this
And regarding the target being on their back, I don’t worry about that as much as I worry about them being overconfident.
with a team that didn’t win the division last year, had to win its final two games just to squeak into the playoffs as the number six seed in the conference and with the return of all of our IR players from last season keeping the team hungry, as well as competitive (since I see a lot of high-quality competition for starting positions between those returning IR players and the men who so ably filled in while they were out).
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
"Here I am, brain the size of a planet,
and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper.
You call that job satisfaction?
'Cause, I don't."
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
You just repeated almost everything I said.
I’m glad someone agrees with me. Maybe I’m not an idiot after all.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
at least 5-1, wouldn't be surprised at 6-0
The Packers will most likely split the games against New Orleans and Atlanta, although the Pack’s offense is just as good or better than those two teams, and the Pack’s D is superior (all I can remember about the Saints is NO giving up 40+ to Seattle). The Pack will win the other 4 games (Chicago, St. Louis, Denver, Carolina). 4-2 at the absolute worst. I honestly think the team will go 13-3 this year as long as they don’t have another anomaly year with all the injuries. The offense is just going to open up like crazy with the addition of J-Mike and Grant.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Jul 18, 2011 3:05 AM CDT reply actions
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