Green Bay would be better off if Driver had retired
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Get out the boiling tar. Calibrate the rack. Sharpen those screws. Bring out what ever Inquisition-era form of "persuasion" you want, I'm not recanting my potentially heretical position: The Packers would be better off if Donald Driver had retired this offseason.Let me get something straight: this isn't some personal attack. I don't have a vendetta against #80. Simply put, I love the guy. I love his work ethic, his consistency, his drive and determination, and his plainly pleasant attitude.
No, I'm sure I love Donald just as much as the rest of you. I'm just able to take a step back, turn off my emotions, and realize that Driver's retirement probably would've left the Packers better positioned in the grand scheme of things.
Donald Driver's play is clearly declining. His heroics against the hapless 49ers aside, 2010 was his least productive season since 2001. Once thought to be ageless, the 35 year-old Driver began to show signs of slowing down. Injuries hampered him throughout the season, and he was unavailable for the second half of Super Bowl XLV. The ankle injury he sustained in that contest kept him in a walking boot for two months. Driver is not as spry and indestructible as he used to be.
Furthermore, his play on the field has not matched seasons past. Always a threat after the catch, Driver's YAC average dropped to a paltry 3.7. And despite the flak that James Jones and Jordy Nelson received, it was Driver who led the team in drops and drop percentage.
While his familiarity with the offense and chemistry with Aaron Rodgers cannot be questioned, it's a simple fact that he's no longer the clear-cut second best receiver on the team. Indeed, he's probably only be as good as the fourth best, behind Nelson and Jones.
Still, forth best on Green Bay's receiving corps is not too shabby, and if preseason action thus far is any indication, Driver still has the ability to serve as a decent possession receiver in the Packers multi-WR sets. But how much would the Packers really have missed Driver if he'd called it quits? Would the passing game drop-off in any significant way?
I doubt it. The Packers are so loaded at receiver that losing Driver would not be much of a blow. Greg Jennings has established himself as an elite player at the position. Jermichael Finley, back from injury, is an indefensible TE who will always open things up on the outside. The inconsistencies that have marred otherwise impressive play from Nelson and Jones would likely vanish with increased responsibility. And rookie second-rounder Cobb appears to be ready to contribute sooner rather than later.
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| With Driver back, promising youngsters like Tori Gurley will most likely be let go. |
Tori Gurley, Chastin West, or both. The fact that Driver will have a spot on the roster means that one if not both of these talented, up-and-coming youths will not. Their futures in Green Bay will be sacrificed for a 36 year-old wide-receiver, the fourth best on his team, who's on the downswing of his career and has recently been plagued by injuries. It's a rare instance in which the Packers under Ted Thompson will pass on promising young talent in favor of a declining veteran.
Now, to be clear, I am not advocating that Ted Thompson releases Driver now. Such a move this late into the preseason would not only be wrong ethically, it would probably create exactly the type of locker room maelstrom that a Super Bowl champion looking to defend needs to avoid. At this point, Driver will and should remain a part of the team.
But just because it's the right decision doesn't necessarily make it the best. Gurley and West are talented players, and it will be difficult to see either of them go on to play somewhere else.
Donald Driver will go down as one of the greatest Packers ever to lace 'em up. He is the franchise's all-time leader in receptions and second on the list for career receiving yards. Coming off a Super Bowl win, the emotional zenith of his 13 year career, this past offseason was the perfect time for him to retire, to hang up his cleats and walk off into the sunset-- and I wish he would have.
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While I see your point ...
and I wouldn’t argue strongly against what you say. It does seem to me that Driver’s ability to be a top receiver has declined. However, I think you may be over-rating the future potential of both West and Gurley. I doubt that West will ever become more than an average 3rd receiver, and possibly never really crack the top 4 in Green Bay, where we have an abundance of very good WRs. Gurley has more upside, so there is the potential that he could become a very good possession receiver. It’s hard to say. He could also always remain average. Maybe like Ruvell Martin.
TT will have a chance to draft, or pick up, another WR to groom next year. This certainly isn’t the last year available to get a good one. I don’t think that Driver playing and contributing in Green Bay for one more year will really hurt our future at the position.
Driver himself was a 7th round draft pick
That isn’t really any different than an UDFA like West or Gurley. In fact most 7th round picks would rather be undrafted and be able to chose which team they think they have the best chance of making. Both West or Gurley look like good WR and should have a job. If its at the cost of a 36 yr old WR in decline, its a shame!
Like the article stated, in an ideal world Driver would have retired. He didn’t which means we stand to lose at least one or both West and Gurley. Driver wasn’t released earlier due only to his leadership, nothing more IMO. Either way, we need to cut ties w/ Driver next offseason…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Are you saying that West or Gurley will be as good as Driver has been? I know Driver’s story, and I’ve seen West and Gurley play.
I definitely don’t think West will ever be more than an average WR; yes NFL-caliber, but average. And Gurley has more potential, but who knows? There are certainly many big, slow WRs with good hands in the NFL, who don’t become more than average.
What we do know is that Driver is more than an average WR, and a leader.
Who's to say they can't be?
Their really no different than Driver. A 7th round pick and an UDFA are basically the same… Lucky to make the team. If Driver can develop, why would you think that West or Gurley can’t do it too?!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
With Driver's guidance...
sure! ;)
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Who's to say ...
Harrell won’t become the best QB in NFL history?
Sure there is always possibility, but I’m talking about probability. Just because Driver as a 7th round pick was able to become an all-pro type receiver, it doesn’t mean that any UDFA who shows some promise will do the same.
Fixed that for you
What we do know is that Driveriswas more than an average WR
His future don’t look as bright as his past.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Look at our vets over 30. Clifton, Driver, Pickett, Woodson. What do they all have in common? A ring. Besides that? Experience. Listen to the DBs talk about Woodson. They all look up to him and try to play like hin. Driver has experience unlike any other Packer reciever. He helps out the young guys, he still plays at a decent level, the community loves him, ect. Add in the talent we already have at WR and you can see why he’s still around. We don’t need West or Gurley. Driver, in my mind, is a reason why Jennings, Jones, Nelson have become such a good group of players.
Michael Jordan - 6 rings
Kobe Bryant - 5 rings
The planet Saturn - 7 rings
Lebron James - a headband
by arodgb on Aug 31, 2011 3:06 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Fixed this for you
Driver has experience unlike any other Packer reciever. He helps out the young guys, … the community loves him, ect. Add in the talent we already have at WR and you can see why he should retire and become one of our assistant coaches.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
I understand the YAC argument
But I don’t agree with it. Since 2005, Driver has recorded the following yearly YAC averages: 4.0, 5.9, 5.3, 4.9, 5.2, 3.7. That would be a pretty significant drop that I don’t think anyone would have predicted based on his stats from the previous 5 years. I’m of the mind that the outlier of the group (last year’s average), had much more to do with a hamstring injury than a general decline in ability.
Could I be wrong about that? Absolutely. Players can fall off of a cliff ability-wise. I don’t think Donald Driver is though. My main reason for believing that is I get the impression that Driver would have bowed out on his own if he thought it was a matter of his ability slipping. He just doesn’t seem to have that Favrian quality of trying to hang around too long to me.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
by GoGregGo on Aug 31, 2011 3:20 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
I think
Driver still believes he’s every bit as good as he was at 27. Pro athletes don’t know when to call it quits on their own. Simple fact of life in the NFL. No NFL players will ever walk away when its time, Driver is no different. And given his can do will to overcome all obstacles he is MORE likely to not know when to walk away. Favre stated MANY times that he would leave before he lost “it”. He didn’t either, in fact he stayed around years too long! Teams have to release old players, old players don’t know how to say “I give up and its time to retire!” Driver is slipping dramatically and he can’t face that fact. Otherwise coming off a SB victory would have been the IDEAL time to step away.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Agree
I think this is a definite trend in the NFL.
Players who have had successful careers don’t want to end them abruptly. So eventually, either because they decline, or for contractual reasons, or system changes or whatever, teams cut ties with a player that has been a very solid contributor. So the players test the market and spend their last years in increasingly reduced roles, until the former all-pros retire as backups. Not pretty to watch.
"Verde que te quiero verde..."
Το πράσινο είναι ζωή!
That's right, I bleed green multiculturally
"if you shut someone down with class, it's more effective" - Udalango
He may retire after this year....
but it would be hard to expect him to last year when he’s one game short of breaking the Receiving Yardage record in GB. Plus, week to week, I’d take him over an UDFA this year. The UDFA may have more upside long-term but I am not as down as many of you all are on Driver. I think his experience helps immensly in situations where receivers need to find openings and make important catches (3rd downs, etc.).
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Aug 31, 2011 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
except
He won’t be making the big catches and probably won’t be available from one week to the next. The important receptions they are looking for Jennings and Finley, and maybe even Jones or Nelson before they look at DRiver. If he isn’t on the field, He’s worse than an UDFA.
Would have been best for the Packers is he retired, but yeah we all know for Driver he wasn’t going to retire 40 some yards shy of the record. Some would call that selfish… Whats best for #80, not best for the Packers.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I wouldn't...
because I think he’s still that good. I think ARod will look for him in clutch situations when his first options are gone (Finley or Jennings) if Driver isn’t already the first option on the play.
Rodgers has looked to him quite a few times this preseason already, and he’s done some nice things.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Aug 31, 2011 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
WHo made the big catches last year?
Before his injury it was Finley… And after it was Jennings. I think Rodgers trusts Finley and Jennings far more than anyone else. And I wouldn’t doubt that he trusts Jones and Nelson as much or more than Driver.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Driver made some crucial 3rd down catches last year
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
Everyone does....
Its the nature of the offense. Doesn’t mean Rodgers is looking for him on 3rd down tho. Finley and Jennings are clearly more reliable targets, and I would argue that Jones and Nelson are as well.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Nah, DD is tougher than any of the other WRs across the middle.
by Curly Lambeau on Aug 31, 2011 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't...
they are because they had to be when filling in, but when Driver is healthy I think ARod looks to him before Jones or Nelson.
There is no way to know for sure, but I bet if you had a personal, candid conversation with ARod and asked him, “Aside from Jennings/Finley, who is your next favority target?” he would say Driver.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Aug 31, 2011 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I would probably go with that in the red zone...
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Aug 31, 2011 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
For what it's worth.......
It should come as no surprise that Aaron Rodgers lobbied for the return of James Jones, who led the Packers in targets, first downs and touchdowns on third down last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/preview11/team/_/name/gb
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by Green and Bold on Sep 1, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
How many third down drops did he have?
In other words, how many of his team-leading seven drops came on third down?
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
10
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by Green and Bold on Sep 1, 2011 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions
And if he has 7 again this year...
I’ll be quite pleased….
I certainly don’t think any UDFA would be more reliable.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
?
7 is actually quite bad, especially when you consider the fact that he only caught 51 passes.
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by Green and Bold on Sep 1, 2011 12:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't remember a single one of them....
unlike some of our other receivers….
so, to me, none of them could have been that egregious.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
There’s no way to know whether or not he’ll be on the field but we can’t just assume he won’t be. And like GGG said above, a lot of his “decline” seemed to be caused by his injury. He hurt his hammy, tried to play through it, and then hurt it worse. At that point, he was basically screwed imo.
I’d like to think that if something like that happened again this season, he’ll know from last season that he shouldn’t try and play through it. If we use him the right way, he can still be a really effective guy for us, imo. When he was out on the field last season — and healthy — he didn’t look like he’d declined much too me.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Aug 31, 2011 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually it was a quad injury.
Started as a bruise, then from trying to play on it, and when you get older your muscles aren’t as pliable, he ended up having a pulled muscle.
Whatever the reason he’s in decline matters little. He isn’t as explosive as he used to be and is more injury prone. Not too mention that he’s dropping alot more passes. Just excuses, cuz he can’t get it done anymore…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I’m saying I still think he has some explosion when he’s healthy. I realize he probably won’t/wouldn’t be able to handle the traditional number of looks your average #2 receiver gets but he doesn’t have to be able to. He’ll probably be used in a rotation with Jones and Nelson just like he was last season, and even the season before that. Only, I’m sure we’ll see Jones and Nelson get some more targets than they did the previous season.
If we use him in that rotation it should keep him a little fresher, and I think he’s shown that when he’s healthy he still has good ability. He might not be as explosive as he used to be but that doesn’t mean that he still can’t be effective . He’s a good route runner, and is probably our best slot guy aside from Jennings. He knows the entire offense too, which is valuable when you consider that we use four and five receivers more than most other teams in the league. Could a guy like West, Gurley, Borel, etc. be able to step in and know the plays from each of the different receiving positions?
And mentioning drops hardly proves anything. All of our receivers had drops last season, and a couple of them have had drop problems for their entire careers (Jones and Nelson).
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Sep 1, 2011 5:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I've said all along...
That Driver needs to be used less to be more effective. He can’t handle the reps anymore… Jones and Nelson should be the #2 WR w/ Driver playing on a limited number of snaps. That would help him avoid injury and keep his legs fresh. Lets not kid ourselves tho, Driver is no longer explosive.
I would have preferred he retired this offseason, coming off a SB victory would have been perfect timing. But he doesn’t know/realize that he’s in decline. He refuses to ackowledge that. It would have made it easier if he had retired on his own. Now we have to hope that West or Gurley aren’t lost to another team and come back to beat the Packers in another uniform.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Can't blame the guy for wanting the record....
provided he can still play a role. Its not selfish, its mutually beneficial.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I doubt losing West or Gurley is going to hurt that much. Thompson’s never had a problem finding receivers. If we really need one I’m sure Thompson will take one in the 2nd or 3rd round like he always does.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Sep 1, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Just look at this preseason
He won’t be making the big catches and probably won’t be available from one week to the next. The important receptions they are looking for Jennings and Finley, and maybe even Jones or Nelson before they look at DRiver.
Jones has what, one catch? I think he was targeted all of once or twice in last weeks game. When Rodgers was trying to convert the third down or get some tough yards, who did he seem to target the most?
Driver.
Which means one of two things (or both) – 1) Rodgers trusts Driver more than Jones/Nelson. and/or 2) Driver was the one getting open for the catches.
So no offense to you Stroh, but I’ll interpret Rodgers treatment of Driver as a sign that he isn’t as close to irrelevant as you seem to believe he is.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Aug 31, 2011 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm still not really sure where this sudden and rabid onset of...
“Driver-should-retire-ism” came from….
its like someone just makes something up one day, then for a week we all bicker over it, even though its entirely preposterous from the start. Its just like the Grant thing last week.
I can’t wait for the regular season.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Aug 31, 2011 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
it's not driver-should-retire
it’s that i wish he would’ve during the offseason. not now. there’s a difference.
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by Green and Bold on Aug 31, 2011 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think there was ever any question that he would come back though...
I just don’t see why he should have this past offseason over the season before or next season…
I get people are on him all of a sudden because of injuries but he’s been pretty healthy throughout his career if memory serves me, and he works harder than most in the offseason to stay in top shape.
I guess injuries could happen again, but his offseason routine makes it less likely than many others.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Aug 31, 2011 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
For the record,
I never said he should’ve retired.
I’m more of the school of thought that he should voluntarily slide into a well-defined reserve role, if he wants to keep playing “until [he’s] 40.”
also of the school that if he keeps playing until he’s 40, then he’s not going to play his final game as a Packer.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
also of the school that if he keeps playing until he’s 40, then he’s not going to play his final game as a Packer.
knowing Ted Thompson, this is likely….
and Ted will get heat for it.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't get why people would get in an uproar over it.
All they have to do is look back a couple years to see #4 in a NYJ jersey, then a putrid purple one, to recognize that moving on from an aging player is a matter of course in the NFL!
Would YOU give Thompson heat for doing whats in the best interests of the Packers?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Sep 1, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would if he would have cut him this past offseason...
but he’ll get it if he’s the one to make the choice because Driver has been a respected member of the team. People get sentimental over it even if it is in the best interest of the team in the long run.
But the best interest of the team is also taking fan concerns into consideration at some level, particularly in GB. They are the ones that buy the tickets and support the team.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
No it's not
See “Favre, Brett”.
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by Green and Bold on Sep 1, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
It most certainly is.
They didn’t cut Favre, he retired. Remember?
Many fans (non-vocal, with fully functioning mental capacities) understood and supported the decision.
Busines is business…..you need consumers.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not the same thing at all.
Favre retired twice, and expected to come back right before the season and get handed the starting job.
I think it comes from the realization that we are probably going to lose two very promising WRs
SUPER BOWL CHAMPS
by Chief Oshkosh on Sep 1, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I love how nobody remembers their names a month into the season...
but we go over it every single preseason.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
not sure how much trust matters when Driver is hobbled by a knee/thigh/ankle injury
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by Green and Bold on Aug 31, 2011 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions
And you know this will happen how......?
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Aug 31, 2011 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
How many 37? yr olds can play a full NFL season w/o getting injured?
My guess is <25%!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
How many new QBs succeed after taking over for a Hall of Fame player?
My guess is <25%!!!!!!! So clearly we should keep Favre for one more year and risk losing Rodgers. Odds are he’ll be a bust anyways!
…………Oops. Sorry. Acid flashback to 2008.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Sep 1, 2011 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Exception...
An outlier, nothing more. The VAST majority of them do nothing but make themselves look bad in one way or another!
Ooops… Flashback to how #4 ended!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I am NOT gonna touch that one!
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
.......Way to completely ignore the point.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Aug 31, 2011 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
And you follow it up by ignoring the point once again
The point being – If Rodgers looks like he trust Driver more than Jones/Nelson in the preseason, what makes you think that will change when the games get real?
Specifically, when you write something like this: “The important receptions they are looking for Jennings and Finley, and maybe even Jones or Nelson before they look at DRiver.”
When you specifically say that Rodgers would trust everyone else to make the “big” catches before looking for Driver, the fact that Rodgers has done the EXACT OPPOSITE in the preseason would be good evidence that you might be wrong.
Not that I would think you would ever admit you’re wrong about anything…..
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Sep 1, 2011 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
My counter...
would be that just b/c Rodgers looks at Driver now, doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have confidence in Nelson/Jones if Driver was gone. He’s gotta leave sometime and I think the guys we have in place will be able to step it up.
Check out my work at JonBob's Packer Blog
by Green and Bold on Sep 1, 2011 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I never said he wouldn't
I was countering Stroh’s baseless statement that Rodgers would be looking at everyone else before looking to Driver.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
Thats my opinion...
Just like it is yours that he would look to Driver before Jones/Nelson!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
And my opinion at least has some.....any.....backing in reality
Even if it is only preseason reality.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Sep 1, 2011 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Past performance and Pre season
Mean nothing going into THIS season. Drivers 37 yrs old. If I’m Rodgers I’m looking at the guys that are gonna be around alot longer than Driver.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Sep 1, 2011 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If I’m Rodgers I’m looking at the guys that are gonna be around alot longer than Driver.
Why when Driver is still a receiver. You make it sound as though Rodgers will be intentionally NOT targeting Driver for some silly reason…..
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
No I said I Would!
Don’t know what he’ll do, but if I’m in his shoes, I would look less at the 37 yr old hanging on by a thread, and more at the young WR who he came in with and who have as much or more ability than Driver at this point!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Sep 1, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This seems unfathomable to me....
nearly criminal.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It at least partially explains why Stroh was never an NFL QB...
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
by GoGregGo on Sep 1, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
That & his inability to get along with people
Stroh’s our locker-room cancer.
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
by Wiedmann on Sep 1, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This thread....
if not already, will now be officially derailed.
/washes hands and steps away
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like this thread was ever on the rails...
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
by Wiedmann on Sep 1, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
It wasn't...
but its been fun. Passed the morning quite well….
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, well, you're never on the rails
so that makes sense.
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
But on the lines....
thats another story.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
On the lines? That explains a lot.

13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
sure does...
hold on, I need to blow my nose…..
err put blow up my nose…
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions
The last time I did coke was in AZ
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
Not that hard to get... considering it all comes through here on the way to the rest of the US
In Every Climb and Place....
I am an ass hat.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, in Tucson, especially
Apparently it wasn’t good stuff. Not really my personal drug of choice. I’ve only done it twice, but my friend with a nose for these things, so to speak, said so.
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
If I’m Rodgers I’m looking at the guys that are gonna be around alot longer than Driver.
Well, I’m certainly hoping Rodgers isn’t thinking like this. I’d prefer he’s looking at the guys who are going to help him win again this year….
Looking to the future is Thompson’s, and to a lesser extent, McCarthy’s job. Rodgers job is to throw to the people he trusts more….NOW. Not the ones he might trust more in a few years
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Sep 1, 2011 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
And who's he gonna trust?
The 37 yr old coming off injuries AND led the team in drops or the younger better players who can do more right now?!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I'll trust Rodgers judgment on who to trust more than yours...
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Sep 1, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
My crazy assumption ...
is that Rodgers throws to the guys who are open.
Maybe Rodgers is trying to find out if he can trust Driver?
The point is its the preseason and passes are gettting thrown to alot of guys w/o regard to if they’re open. There could be any number of reasons he’s throwing to Driver. Maybe he wants to try to get his timing back w/ him. Maybe he wants to find out if he can trust him yet. Passes in the PRE season get thrown for alot of reasons besides if he’s open or not. Maybe McCarthy told him to throw to Driver to see if he’s gonna catch it? He did drop 2 in the Indy game after all.
You simply cannot judge a pass being thrown to a reciever as proof of anything in the PRE-season.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Maybe he wants to find out if he can trust him yet.
This implies that there was a time when he didn’t.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You simply cannot judge a pass being thrown to a reciever as proof of anything in the PRE-season.
That’s the argument you’re going to go with? That perhaps McCarthy is telling Rodgers to throw it Driver’s way; or that Rodgers wants to see if he can trust him?
You really think either one of those options are more likely than Driver either getting open or being Rodgers first or second read?
The fact is, Driver was targeted quite a bit in the game against the Colts. And teams’ generally use the third preseason game for a dress rehearsal before the real games. I’d guess most even are game planning (probably to a much lesser extent but still) for it.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Sep 1, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
MANY things change "when the games get real."
what makes you think that will change when the games get real
Coaches show as little as possible, during the pre-season, of what they’re going to do “when the games get real.”
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
True, but I'm not talking about coaches decisions, or playing time, or whatnot
I’m talking about the split-second decision of “who am I going to throw to on this play to get this first down.”
I doubt that Rodgers is throwing to Driver thinking “Oh, I won’t throw it to Jones now so people will think I won’t throw it to him in the regular season.”
He’s throwing it to him because Driver’s the one who is open/more trustworthy in his eyes at that moment.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Sep 1, 2011 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously...
people are overthinking this or just coming up with ridiculous “evidence” of his apparently rapid decline.
He’ll get his targets when it matter this year….just like every other year he’s played with Rodgers.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, you make good points, and I've thought the same thing.
But the counter-argument to what you’ve said is that there’ll be one or two good undrafted WRs next year, too. There’s always a couple intriguing guys that are tough to cut. Meanwhile, Driver still makes tough catches over the middle. Maybe it would’ve been slightly better if he’d retired, but the real difference between him and somebody else, as far as the offense goes, is hardly worth mentioning. It’d be a horse apiece.
The real issue is that the undrafted replacement guy would’ve played on STs.
But… what are you gonna’ do? We’ll all be happy when DD gets the record.
You sum up my point nicely.
I don’t think there’d be much of a difference between the Packers with Driver this year and the Packers without Driver next year. So that issue is moot.
The issue is that the Packers could’ve added a young WR in Driver’s absence. Chastin West and Tori Gurley apparently have the talent to play in the NFL, and they’d probably have a roster spot on any other team aside from the Packers.
You can say that two good players will be available next year, but that simply might not be the case. There are just no guarantees. And in the case of West, he already has a year on the practice squad and good familiarity with the offense. He’s torn it up in camp and looked good in games. Yah, he might never be a #1 WR in the league, but it will suck to see him walk.
Furthermore, I would rather have West and/or Gurley on the roster now, and then throw some rookies in to the mix next year to spice things up. Competition, competition, competition.
Bottom line: we’re not going to be significantly better with Driver then we’d be without him, but his presence means some young talent will have to walk.
FINALLY. I am not saying he should retire now, or be cut. It would have been ideal if he did it a month or two ago. But now that he’s here, let’s move forward. I’m glad he’ll get that record.
Check out my work at JonBob's Packer Blog
by Green and Bold on Aug 31, 2011 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
West and Gurley
No doubt, they are good enough to make most rosters as a 5th WR. But let’s get real here. We can (and with Ted Thompson, almost undoubtedly will) find plenty of players just like them in next years UDFAs and free agents. Hell, West and Gurley could very well sign one year deals with their next team, so there’s a decent chance they themselves will be available if we want them back.
So, my version of the “bottom line”: We are a better team this year with Driver instead of West/Gurley, obviously in leadership and also in talent. And the young talent that “will have to walk” because of his presence on the roster is easily replaceable.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Aug 31, 2011 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think you're a little to quick to pull that trigger.
It’s not easily replaceable. Guys who can play in the NFL are not a dime a dozen. Chastin West has not just been “passable” in camp, he has been one of the most consistently impressive players, BAR NONE. To say like a UDFA of equal caliber will turn up out camp next year is jumping the gun. We have that talent here now, and I wish we were in a better position to keep it.
Check out my work at JonBob's Packer Blog
by Green and Bold on Sep 1, 2011 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions
They've looked good
Good enough to be a 5th WR. These guys aren’t on the verge of immediate super-stardom. They are guys who have looked very good, against backups/3rd stringers.
My point is that the way you are talking about them, you’re talking as if they are already sure-fire bets to have success in the NFL. At this point, they are still basically all potential. Granted, we have had a better look at what their NFL potential is, unlike future UDFAs. But these are still guys who could easily flame out without doing anything at the NFL. Just like those future UDFAs. So what I’m saying is, those future UDFAs are a crapshoot. Maybe they’ll be good, maybe they won’t. West and Gurley are still crapshoots, just with a little better odds.
I would like to be able to keep both of them rather than see them take that potential to another team. But at the expense of a Driver? No thanks.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Sep 1, 2011 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
At one point Driver was little more than the 5th WR too
Hell IIRC, he was released and on the PS for a year too. So who are you to say that West or Gurley can’t become the next Driver. They are all trying to beat the odds just like Driver did one day! And at least West and Gurley have the potential to improve! Driver only has the potential to get Worse!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Sep 1, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They could, but Driver in decline is better than a first year receiver...
give those guys another year.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's the point
We don’t have “another year” to give them. They probably won’t be a part of our organization moving forward.
And Driver may better than West/Gurley for this season, but then what? His level of play is only going to decrease. So essentially, what you’ve boiled this down to is 36 year old 4th best receiver for one season > promising talent with the potential to contribute for 5+ years.
Check out my work at JonBob's Packer Blog
by Green and Bold on Sep 1, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And so could the dozens of other UDFA's that come through...
if I remember correctly, the next Barry Sanders still sitting way down Carolina’s depth chart (Tyrell Sutton) and hasn’t burned us all yet.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
The truth is
The odds are against West and Gurley EVER contributing as much in their career as a fading Donald Driver will contribute in his last year or two here. The odds are they’ll never be more than a 5th WR on this team, behind Jennings, Jones, Nelson, and Cobb. (And knowing Ted Thompson and his love of WRs, he’ll probably draft someone else in the next year or two).
So it’s keep DD as the “fourth best WR” (your opinion) > “promising talent with the potential” to be the 5th best WR.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Sep 1, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The odds are they’ll never be more than a 5th WR on this team, behind Jennings, Jones, Nelson, and Cobb. (And knowing Ted Thompson and his love of WRs, he’ll probably draft someone else in the next year or two).
Exactly. If we were starved for receiver talent or something, then I’d get letting Driver go but that’s certainly not the case.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Sep 1, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
If we were starved for receiver talent
We wouldn’t be having this discussion. We’d probably keep all three.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
by GoGregGo on Sep 1, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not have this fulfilling discussion!?
WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO TO THIS SITE!?!!
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Again, I never said anything about "letting him go"
Check out my work at JonBob's Packer Blog
by Green and Bold on Sep 1, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe your quote was...
He should be put to sleep
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure I agree
Why, because West was UDFA? Driver was a 7th rounder and has been the most productive WR of the past decade, out performing high picks like Javon Walker and Robert Ferguson.
To say West’s ceiling is 5th best on team is extremely short-sighted. We don’t know how the future will play out. Nelson could depart as a FA, Jones could remain inconsistent. Again, I’m not saying cut Driver for West, but I think it would have been ideal if Driver would’ve retired and West got a roster spot. Maybe there’d be a slight drop off this season (I doubt it), but we’d be better off in the long run.
For those who say Chastin West doesn’t have the physical abilities to be a starting receiver, does Driver? Were his combine numbers impressive? You can take your vertical jumps and your 40 yard dashes. Chastin West follows the blue print DRIVER himself laid out for being a successful receiver: he gets open and he catches everything thrown his way.
Check out my work at JonBob's Packer Blog
by Green and Bold on Sep 1, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you honestly see Chastin West or Tori Gurley having a good chance to be better than Jones or Nelson? Do you honestly see them as having more potential than Cobb, who was the undisputed star of training camp and early preseason, before bruising his knees?
They’ve done a good job, and they’ve earned a roster spot somewhere. But to project to the future based on a few preseason performances against the backups and third stringers, and start acting like there is a GOOD chance they will be the next Driver is ridiculous.
There’s a reason why people talk about the backstories of the Donald Drivers and Tramon Williams of the world. They’re a good story because that kind of success from people picked where they are/not picked at all is extremely rare. The problem there is that any time a late-round pick or UDFA shows some promise, people start talking about them as the next Donald Driver or Tramon Williams, instead of talking about them as the next (insert name of any of the thousands of late-round/UDFA players who showed promise and never had success).
Simply put, we are already stacked at WR with good, young, talented WRs. We have four young/youngish WRs who almost certainly will always be ahead of West or Gurley. Having one old guy (who still has the skills to get it done) isn’t going to hurt our future at the position, especially when Ted Thompson has shown a propensity to draft a new WR every year or two, regardless of whether or not it is considered a “need position.”
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Sep 1, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
We are sure to lose 2 surefire HoFers if we keep....
the 78 year old who needs a walker to line up in his formations, and then defecates himself as he limps downfield, only to slip in his own mess and drop every pass thrown to him.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not even sure what this is trying to insult.
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
Me neither...
this thread is so dead.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions
You're so dead, butt-licker!
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
I only did that once......
every day for a year.
In Every Climb and Place....
I am an ass hat.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
You mean constantly for a year...
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
♫ Thread is de-ad.
That’s what I sa-id. ♫
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
I know how to revive it.... NAY! I know how to make it live forever...
in a zombie-like, parasitic state….
It will haunt your dreams, damage your emotional stability and eat your firstborn…..
I present to you….
REVENGE4DRIVER.
In Every Climb and Place....
I am an ass hat.
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 2, 2011 2:23 AM CDT up reply actions
If either of them
were a draft pick, your opinion would be different. According to the beat reporters, West has been arguably the best player (player, not just WR) throughout the entire preseason.
I’m not predicting he’ll be a hall of famer, or anything of that nature. BUT, the only thing that seems to be separating West from the likes of Nelson and Jones is experience and status.
Check out my work at JonBob's Packer Blog
by Green and Bold on Sep 1, 2011 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Jones and Nelson = have performed at a high level, against the highest level of competition, on the biggest stages
Chastin West = has performed at a high level, in the preseason, against players who are also just fighting for a roster spot.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
The Pessimisim
You can say that two good players will be available next year, but that simply might not be the case.
One, the coaches seem to really like the potential of Borel, who will be on the practice squad. Kerry Taylor has also shown some potential. A year on the practice squad for either or both of these guys and they may easily be in a similar position to West this year.
Two, there will be 20-30 WRs coming out of college next year who will stick in the NFL. It is pretty doubtful with the Packers’ good scouting and talent evaluation that they won’t be able to find a good 5th receiver/special teams player coming out of college if Borel, Taylor, or Gurley (if he gets to the practice squad) doesn’t make it next year.
The point that seems to be missed here is that we are not talking about replacing Donald Driver the #1 or #2 receiver, that will come from Jones, Nelson or Cobb. We are talking about a finding a 5th receiver who will also contribute to special teams.
You mean just like Driver was on the PS his 1st year? IIRC
Whats the difference between Driver a 7th round pick and West and Gurley? Next too nothing… They have just as good a chance to become the next Driver as anyone.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
The "pro Driver" people are reminding me of the Favre backers around the time of his retirement
I get it. You like a player so much and he has been around for a long ass time… but at some point you need to move on.
SUPER BOWL CHAMPS
by Chief Oshkosh on Sep 1, 2011 4:03 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Or we'd rather keep a guy who will actually see the field and make key contributions on the offense
Instead of a couple guys who have shown just enough to not be practice squad players.
This is not comparable to “keep Favre over Rodgers.” This would be “Keep Favre over Craig Nall.”
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
"Just enough" to make the practice squd??? What?
I think it is very comparable to Farve/Rodgers in the way that a fan favorite vet is playing his final seasons, with someone just as capable in playing at the same level behind him. I know we wont agree, but I think DD fans (myself included) need to see that he isn’t going to be playing much longer.
SUPER BOWL CHAMPS
by Chief Oshkosh on Sep 1, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not comparable to Favre/Rodgers
If we were talking about whether we should keep Driver instead of Jones, then that would be comparable (and we certainly had plenty of those discussions back when Jones was still a FA). There you’re talking about getting rid of a fading starter in favor of a player many think of as being starter-quality, and on the rise.
Here, we’re talking about Driver vs. a couple of guys who would be, at best, a 5th WR on this team. If they were to sign with another team, I have a hard time seeing them as more than a 4th or 5th WR (unless they go somewhere with REALLY bad WRs. Not just Chicago Bears bad).
I didn’t say “just enough to make the practice squad.” Perhaps I could have written it better, but read it again. I said “just enough to not be practice squad players.” That is, just enough to make a roster as the last WR, rather than being forced onto the practice squad. The one who would likely never see the field except in an emergency or in a 5 wide set. That is exactly what West and Gurley are right now, and odds are, they might not ever be more than that.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
I believe what he said was
just enough to not be practice squad players.
Meaning that some other team will snag them before we can get them on the PS. Or at least that’s how I took it.
Although, I’m not entirely certain both will get snapped up. It’s probably pretty likely they won’t make it through waivers, but, who knows, maybe we’ll get lucky.
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
Now that's just asking for trouble.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha, I realize that. Someone had to say it...
SUPER BOWL CHAMPS
by Chief Oshkosh on Sep 1, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see it that way
This isn’t about being pro-Driver. Favre wasn’t being replaced by a free agent with some potential. Driver has been loyal and he was injured last year. Obviously, the coaches think he still has more value than a potential FA.
This.
The “pro Driver” people are reminding me of the Favre backers
’Nuff said.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Nothing like it.
Totally different circumstances.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 1, 2011 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions

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