Looking At The Future Of The Packers Secondary

D-Line and LOLB are bigger areas of need than CB

but FS is as big as any hole on our roster.

by Archibaldcrane on Jan 17, 2012 10:12 AM CST reply actions

DL/OLB vs. Secondary

I am on the side of pass rush in this debate. The secondary was put under a ton of pressure this year, and they generally caved. However, I don’t think it was lack of talent/speed and I don’t think better players would have made a difference this year. I think this group will rebound if we can rush the QB and get back to playing more press man. This all hinges on getting Collins back, though.

by Ben T on Jan 17, 2012 10:14 AM CST reply actions

Read that...

Tramon was playing w/ nerver damage in his shoulder and was never at full strength. If his shoulder gets back to full strength the Packers can get back to playing Press coverage. If he can’t regain the strength needed in the shoulder, then CB takes an even bigger jump up the priority list. Right now I go OLB, DL and CB/S… But If Tramon can’t make it back, then CB becomes a top priority. Tramon and Shields excel at press and Tramon’s shoulder prevented them playing that coverage alot. I don’t think there’s a Safety in this draft w/ the kinda of instincts to play Collins role. Burnett is as close as we’re going to find this year in the draft. Doubt any top line FA Safeties become available. But IMO, getting Tramon back to full strength is very important. That way we can focus on the pass rush in the draft.

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 17, 2012 10:26 AM CST up reply actions

I can't agree more...

…with the last two posts. 90% of the DB’s problems come from having to defend for 5-8 seconds on almost every down. Even the most pedestrian QBs can thrive against a pass rush like that. Yes, there were some blown coverages, but that had no where near the impact of a complete lack of QB pressure. In fact, if it wasn’t for the ~25 interceptions from the DBs (others from LBs), we’d probably not have 15 wins.

The lack of any push whatsoever from the DL and the lack of any rush opposite CMIII was what finally killed this team in the end.

by GregR on Jan 17, 2012 10:27 AM CST up reply actions

I think you are being far too generous with our corners. You make it sound like every play the QB would go back and sit there for 5-8 seconds which is insanely inaccurate.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Jan 17, 2012 10:30 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah, that didn’t always happen but they were forced to play A LOT more zone than they normally did, and that hurt them a lot — especially Williams.

The way I look at it is this : you don’t go from having probably the best secondary in football to one of the worst. The pass rush was absent all season long, and it forced Capers to bring blitzes that never got home or sick back in zones.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Jan 17, 2012 10:53 PM CST up reply actions

"sick back in zones"

I know I get sick when I see them back in a zone. Ba-duh-duh!

by Ben T on Jan 18, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions

Agreed...

Getting to the QB is a bigger need the secondary. We basically had the same set up last year and were second in yards allowed. The difference was the pass rush.

*Proud Packers shareholder*
With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg!

by RaY210 on Jan 17, 2012 10:24 AM CST reply actions

IF we decide to bring one or two guys in via free agency

I’d prefer we address DE/OLB and then use the draft to add some depth to the secondary. We need an upgrade to our pass rush immediately. Improving this will also help our DBs, but I don’t think it would hurt to nab a corner early and then a safety in say the third round or so, especially if the pass rush gets addressed.

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Jan 17, 2012 10:51 AM CST reply actions 2 recs

Good pass rushing OLB and DE don't make it to FA

They’re far too valuable to let good ones leave. So you can rule out finding one in FA IMO. The draft is the best most likely place to find one.

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 17, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions

Thats true, I'm just nervous we can't find anyone to make an impact

I know Clay had a huge rookie year (10 or so sacks) but often guys need a year or two to get up to speed.

Maybe we try a trade? Don’t think we would though, we’d have to give up draft picks.

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Jan 17, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions

Which round though would be the best to find one?

I don’t know if TT’s gonna draft one in the 1st… he might, but we haven’t drafted DE in the first since.. ugh, Justin Harrell. What do ya think?

When life gives ya lemons, shut up and eat your damn lemons.
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLVI, Guaranteed! - REVENGE4FAVRE

by P-Townfan on Jan 17, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions

I would use our 1st round on an OLB

Then a 2nd on a DE that can develop into a good pass rusher. OLB is going to have a more immediate impact than a DL. And hopefully Neal can get healthy and show why we drafted him in the 2nd. An OLB and a healthy Neal would give us the pass rush we need.

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 17, 2012 11:27 AM CST up reply actions

I really hope you're right about that "healthy Neal" but, Stroh

I really hate to classify him (or any player) as the next Justin Harrell, but he’s not been producing because of owies. I sincerely hope you’re right, guy.

When life gives ya lemons, shut up and eat your damn lemons.
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLVI, Guaranteed! - REVENGE4FAVRE

by P-Townfan on Jan 17, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions

Let's give him a year or two before we judge him

He is still getting his feet wet

by Chief Oshkosh on Jan 17, 2012 2:01 PM CST up reply actions

I agree its hard to count on him...

But short of using a 1st rd pick on another one, I think thats the best way to go. Prefer to use the 1st on OLB then a DL in the 2nd or 3rd.

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 17, 2012 9:46 PM CST up reply actions

Agree with Stroh

If you look at this draft, it is light in impact 34 OLB’ers but heavy with impact 34 DE’s. If you want a good OLB prospect in this draft, were gonna have to get him in the first.

by Shoes31 on Jan 17, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions

Slotted at 28, it should be somewhat realistic to think we could trade up and snag Upshaw/Perry/Lewis/Other Bama LB. Small silver lining.

by Tracker J Dunn on Jan 18, 2012 3:33 AM CST up reply actions

Not necessarily

There could be three potentials in free agency: Mario Williams, Ahmad Brooks, and Anthony Spencer.

Texans may pass on the amount it would take to re-sign Williams due to the emergence of Brooks Reed. Franchise tag on Williams would probably be $9-10 million.

49ers are likely to let Ahmad Brooks go because they want Aldon Smith to be a full-time player at OLB.

Cowboys probably would like to keep Spencer but their #1 priority is improving the secondary.

Another possibility is Cliff Avril. Lions already have a ton of money invested in the D-line plus need to renegotiate Calvin Johnson’s contract, so re-signing Avril could be a luxury they cannot afford. To franchise Avril would be in the $9-10 million range. Sure, Avril played DE for the Lions but he is 6-3, 260 lbs and very fast, so a move to OLB may be a possibility. Plus, Avril will only be 26 in April. It would also be nice to poach one of the Lions best defensive players.

TT will have to delve into free agency this year, and I think he will, for a few reasons. First, judging by how tepid the market was last free agency period and the fact the cap is not expected to increase much if at all this free agency period, I think T will find the price-to-value more to his liking.

Second, even TT knows he cannot expect to draft enough guys that can come in Day 1 and be starters, filling the holes as they exist right now. To draft one of the stud OLB’s TT would likely have to move up, which will cost later picks. Later picks that would not be available to address DL and S/CB. Of course, the lower the draft pick the less likely they are to contribute immediately. If TT stands pat, then we are probably getting a guy that needs time to develop at OLB, or we are getting a DL that could probably contribute immediately. However, going a position than OLB just moves that pick further down the draft and less likely to contribute early one.

Finally, there are only 5-6 teams that are sitting on a huge amount of cap space. Thus, all the other teams are fairly tight against the cap. At last count, the Packers had about $6 million in remaining cap space, which will probably get carried over to next season. Then look at probably letting Clifton and Driver go and that adds about $10.5 million in space. Then think about releasing Hawk and Peprah, which adds another $7.5 million in space. If Nick Collins is done, that is another $3.5 million in space. So, TT should have plenty of room in what could be a buyer’s market.

by bpatrickJD on Jan 17, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions

I can't stand him personally...

But you peaked my interest with the Avril talk

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Jan 17, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions

I doubt Avril is a candidate for us

I don’t think he would be interested in learning a new position when some team is gonna pay him 6+ million to stay at DE.

by Shoes31 on Jan 17, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions

you're right, he is quite young and versatile

so how about we ask him to get a bit stronger, maybe 20 pounds of muscle, and put him up at the line?

by Nels Winkler on Jan 17, 2012 2:59 PM CST up reply actions

I don't know that he has to add weight

in the base 3-4, yes, he would be undersized, but we did not play much base 3-4 this season and I don’t know what the future holds.

Some 3-4 OLBs rush standing up or with a hand down. In Detroit he was a 4-3 DE and seemed to hold up alright. Detroit has said he is a top priority to sign but with over $20 million being paid to Suh, Vanden Bosch, Fairly, and Williams, can they afford another $5-7 million guy?

by bpatrickJD on Jan 17, 2012 5:16 PM CST up reply actions

Release Hawk?

Hold on, your way overreacting. How many draft picks do you think we have? And how many new starters do you want on the defense? And Peprah is more than likely staying as well. Hes valuable as a backup player.

by Shoes31 on Jan 17, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions

We'll see

Hawk has a $6.5 million cap and did not play very well this year. I would think DJ Smith could give us more with an entire off-season under his belt, or a FA like Larry Grant, who filled in really well for Patrick Willis when he was hurt.

Peprah could stay, he is only a $1 million cap, which is reasonable for a veteran, but it sure seemed Peprah was responsible for a lot of the ugliness we saw on defense this year. Just saying it is a possibility he’s gone.

by bpatrickJD on Jan 17, 2012 5:10 PM CST up reply actions

They just signed Hawk to an extension last year!

There is no way they are going to release him and accelerate his signing bonus to this year! They will NOT release Hawk… You can forget that… Peprah is a valuable reserve. He may not be a starting FS, but he is a pretty good backup and ST player. ANd Peprah was far from the only player that had his struggles! You certainly can’t blame him for alot of the D’s problems! No one in the secondary had a good year and that includes Woodson. If you look his INT’s came largely against rookie QB’s. He made ALOT less impact plays this year as opposed to last.

The Packers are not going to make wholesale changes!

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 17, 2012 9:56 PM CST up reply actions

I wouldn't equate cutting Hawk and Peprah as making wholesale changes

by bpatrickJD on Jan 17, 2012 10:12 PM CST up reply actions

Either way its ridiculous..

I doubt either one is going anywhere, especially Hawk! ANd you also mentioned Clifton, Driver among others. Grant sure won’t be back. How does releasing Hawk one year after signing him to a big contract help the Packers? Some players are already on the way out, releasing 2 more that have valuable roles on the team doesn’t make any sense.

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 17, 2012 10:19 PM CST up reply actions

Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens at the end of February/beginning of March

by bpatrickJD on Jan 17, 2012 10:25 PM CST up reply actions

But let me ask you this

are you fine with possibly paying a back-up ILB in excess of $6 million per year? TT didn’t do it with Barnett and he was only making $5 million.

by bpatrickJD on Jan 17, 2012 10:27 PM CST up reply actions

I don't see Hawk as a backup!

He is asked to do alot of the dirty work so Bishop can make all the plays! Just cuz you don’t think he is good certainly doesn’t mean Thompson thinks the same. Barnett also was on the wrong side of 30 and had missed significant portions of 2 out of 3 years and Bishop played much better than Barnett did when he got on the field. The ILB positions are much different… Hawk takes on all the blockers so Bishop/Barnett could make the splash plays and tackles. Hawk never misses a game and calls the D in the huddle. Much better leader than Barnett was. Barnett was too emotional, Hawk is a rock emotionally, never gets to high or low like Barnett did. He does his job and does it well. Thompson wouldn’t have signed him to a big extension if he didn’t!

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 17, 2012 10:36 PM CST up reply actions

Hawk’s close to back-up level talent, imo. The good year he had in 2010 is going to be the exception throughout his career, imo.

Hawk never misses a game and calls the D in the huddle. Much better leader than Barnett was. Barnett was too emotional, Hawk is a rock emotionally, never gets to high or low like Barnett did. He does his job and does it well. Thompson wouldn’t have signed him to a big extension if he didn’t!

All that is great but I don’t really care how much of a rock he is if he can’t really play that well. He’s just too slow, and far too often he gets totally washed out by blockers.

I mean I agree he won’t be cut just one year after he was extended but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he was cut before the end of his contract. He’s nothing more than an average player, imo.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Jan 17, 2012 11:00 PM CST up reply actions

He has to take on the blockers...

And can’t just run around or avoid them. So he takes them on so Bishop can make all the tackles. Thats by design… He simply isn’t supposed to be the playmaker in our D. Once you realized he wasn’t going to be a playmaker like a #5 overall pick is expected to be, then you put him in a position that uses him to break others free.

I don’t know if he is necessarily worth what he’s making, but it was either pay him or then you don’t have an ILB that can play his position. I certainly don’t want to see Francois being the starter.

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 17, 2012 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

So you’re telling me that he’s not supposed to shed the blockers if he can? That’s my point about him always getting washed out. I can’t count how many times he got pushed 2-3 yards backwards when making a tackle too. He’s supposed to be this big, strong guy who is great against the run and I just don’t ever see it.

I think you’re putting far too much into him calling the plays. DJ Smith stepped in and seemed to do it just fine — as a rookie! The fact that he’s smart doesn’t negate the fact that he’s an average player.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Jan 18, 2012 1:15 AM CST up reply actions

Sure he's supposed to try to shed them

But he IS asked to take them on and can’t run around them. Somebody has to take them on. He’s playing his role in the D. He ALLOWED Bishop to lead the team in tackles and still made tackles himself while being blocked.

How am i putting too much into calling plays since I only mentioned it once in passing? He’s a good starter… I haven’t said he’s great or Pro Bowl or anything and I did say I don’t know if he’s worth what he’s making. I think you still hold it against him that he was the 5th overall pick and won’t give him credit for what he does!

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 18, 2012 8:23 AM CST up reply actions

I recognize what he does — I just don’t think that, that’s worth the contract he’s being paid. I just think he’s pretty average, and have been saying so for a while. He probably had the best season he’ll ever have in 2010, and I think that, plus injuries to Barnett and Chillar resulted in him getting a contract that he didn’t deserve.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Jan 19, 2012 7:02 PM CST up reply actions

cutting hawk would be a pretty major cut and he’d have LOTS of suitors waiting to sign him.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Jan 20, 2012 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

I couldn’t see them cutting Hawk at all. I could see a low chance that IF TT were to try and trade for a beast LB that Hawk could be included. He’s solid, but like it has been said, we need playmakers. His speed was a definitely a liability at times, but thats my only complaint about him. I do think he has value if they were looking at moving pieces around.

by Tracker J Dunn on Jan 18, 2012 3:39 AM CST up reply actions

unless its us letting them go… ;-)

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Jan 17, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions

DL/OLB Number One Priority

After spending the entire season watching mediocre QB’s eat us up, how could anyone denythe fact that the DL needs help? We have all but taken Clay’s magic by making him do the impossible and apply pressure while being double teamed since there is no pressure from the other side.

by glang on Jan 17, 2012 10:55 AM CST reply actions

NEGLECTED THE ROLB POSITION FOR TOO LONG!!!

We’ve all been saying it for the last two years… WE NEED SOMEONE OPPOSITE CM3!!!

UFA or 7th Round Picks aren’t going to cut it any more!!!

Even as stubborn as TT is… Surely he has to see the need for a pass rush!?!? Which in turn will alleviate some of the pressure on our CB’s!!

If we have a chance to trade or sign a ROLB great… If not, we better address it with our 1st Round pick this year!!

"Southern Hills Kennel" ~ "We Breed the Best Bitches In Texas!"

GO PACK GO!!!

by Bird Dog Uni on Jan 17, 2012 11:02 AM CST reply actions

Have you considered that maybe its not stubborness, but the right guys not being available where we are picking?

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Jan 17, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions

we could alleviate our WR problems with a trade to someone with an olb for jones.

then DD doesn’t have to get forced into retirement, and we can bring up gurley.

by Nels Winkler on Jan 17, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions

Jones has higher upside than DD at this point

plus, DD has over a $5 million cap this coming season.

It sucks that DD may be gone because of money and age. I worry about losing his presence in the locker room. You hope that Jennings, Nelson, and Jones can pick up the leadership slack lost with Driver.

by bpatrickJD on Jan 17, 2012 5:19 PM CST up reply actions

Pass rush. Period

Anything else is a distant second

by Big10freak on Jan 17, 2012 12:49 PM CST via mobile reply actions

Need to get a pass rusher. Opposing Quarterbacks have too much time in the pocket right now.

Consider this. Eli was 3/10 for 45 yards when some pressure was applied. 18/23 for however many yards my grandmother could have thrown for with that much time. The pass rush was just not the same this year.

That dog just won't hunt.

by Bush League All Star on Jan 17, 2012 12:52 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

Oh, BLAS, you beat me by two minutes.

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jan 17, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions

.....

Still one of my fav posters!

That dog just won't hunt.

by Bush League All Star on Jan 17, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs

This.

Something was off all year. Playcalling, players, both…I dunno. I’m still reeling from a flipping NFC East team doing well.

I already told you! I deal with the god damn receivers so the linebackers don’t have to! I have coverage skills; I’m good at covering people! Can’t you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!

by msc32887 on Jan 17, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions

Our pick also came from him getting pressured

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Jan 17, 2012 3:24 PM CST up reply actions

We need to invest in someone who played at Ball So Hard University.

Because right now, not even Goodell wants to fine Brad Jones, Erik Walden, or Frank Zombo.

Opposing QBs had their way with us this year because they had the most important ingredient for a successful passing attack: time. We’re spoiled by Rodgers’ ability to evade, but if you hassle a QB, you’re going to force more incompletions and turnovers. Even T.J. Yates can get it done if he has protection, but once protection breaks down? That’s when offenses stall.

In hindsight, losing Cullen Jenkins was a huge blow, and replacing him will be near impossible. Pickett is a year older, Neal is a huge unknown, and the Wynn/Wilson combo is decidedly “meh”.

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jan 17, 2012 12:54 PM CST reply actions

especially considering what philly paid for him.

it is a shame that we lowballed him considering how crucial he was to our team. defensively we were one player different from last year really. look what that player did.

by Nels Winkler on Jan 17, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions

Didn't lowball him...

They just decided to move on w/o him! They didn’t even enter into negotiations w/ Jenkins. They made a decision and whether right or wrong, they move on w/o him! WHen it comes to players like Jenkins you gotta make a choice and they decided they weren’t going to pay him for what are going to be the least productive years of his career and the most expensive.

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 17, 2012 10:01 PM CST up reply actions

What you’re saying is correct but there are times when you need to make exceptions and I think signing him should have been one of them. It was risky to rely on somebody who had been on IR the previous year to replace him. We should have signed Jenkins, and included some sort of out in the case that Neal had a good year and looked like the player Thompson thought he was.

Not doing so really came back to bite us in the butt and was the primary reason for why our season ended early.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Jan 17, 2012 11:04 PM CST up reply actions

Yep.

I know people always (including me) always hate consistently bringing up Jenkins, but it’s necessary here, so I’ll make an exception. Not signing Jenkins was a huge, HUGE mistake, and was the main cause (along with Collins) where we went from one of the best defenses to one of the worst.
If TT was going to gamble and let Jenkins go, he needed to have a backup plan if Neal, who is basically a rookie with an injury history, didn’t pan out. He basically put the entire fate of the defense on Neal’s shoulders. I’ve agreed with nearly all of TT’s decisions in the past, but he was very wrong here. Hopefully we can sort out the pass rush problems in FA and in the draft.

On Wisconsin!

by Celtin on Jan 18, 2012 1:51 AM CST up reply actions

Lawrence Guy was also put on IR.

13.

by Wiedmann on Jan 18, 2012 10:56 AM CST up reply actions

Hopefully, TT learned a valuable lesson

Similar to what every experienced trial attorney knows, “Never ask a question you don’t know the answer to.” TT knows never to let a player walk without knowing who is going to replace him. Sure, TT knew Neal was going to replace Jenkins but TT did not what Neal was since it was based on 2 1/2 games of work and many games missed due to injury. It was simply a gamble that did not pay off. Hopefully Neal gets healthy and stays healthy so we can see what we have. But make no mistake, we still need two viable, pass-rushing DLs, one to start and the other to fill-in for Pickett in passing situations.

by bpatrickJD on Jan 17, 2012 5:23 PM CST up reply actions

pass rush in the draft

if we are going to be FA players (doubt it) we should be going CB/S, there is such a learning curve with the secondary that its tough to rely on a rookie corner. Just look at Jimmy Smith in Baltimore or Prince in NY.

Pass rush is not hard for a talented rookie to step into right away and make a big impact. Plus I think it is easier to find where we are drafting than a shut down DB

REPORTER: What do you think is happening to the team?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: The ship be sinking.
REPORTER: How far can it sink?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: Sky's the limit.

by uofmike on Jan 17, 2012 1:10 PM CST via Android app reply actions

agreed

Do you know of any free agent DB talent though?

by doldham on Jan 17, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions

nope

didn’t think I’d have to worry about it.

but I’m sure there is some

REPORTER: What do you think is happening to the team?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: The ship be sinking.
REPORTER: How far can it sink?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: Sky's the limit.

by uofmike on Jan 17, 2012 7:01 PM CST via Android app up reply actions

davon house

Is he capable of contributing anything?

by doldham on Jan 17, 2012 2:56 PM CST reply actions

let's see what he does before criticizing him, m'kay?

by Nels Winkler on Jan 17, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions

fair

I have to admit I forgot about him with his injuries. I didn’t mean to imply I had given up on him. My apologizes for my tone, and for not being a more knowledgeable fan!

I’ll look forward to what he does this preseason!

by doldham on Jan 17, 2012 4:06 PM CST up reply actions

Reportedly

Whitt (our CB’s coach) really likes him. He thinks that with a good off season and camp, House can contend for serious playing time.

by Shoes31 on Jan 17, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions

I think House had the injury bug in camp and early last year

Which stunted his development. Still, I thought he was a potential steal in the draft. Excited to see what he can do in year two.

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Jan 17, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions

He's got the size and speed.

Lets see if he’s got the heart and mind.

"Football isn't a contact sport, it's a collision sport. Dancing is a contact sport."

by dieapack on Jan 17, 2012 8:59 PM CST up reply actions

If I recall: he has good size and excels at press coverage, but didn’t play top level competition. That combined with the injury early and nfl lockout probably prevented him from being able to contribute this year. I don’t think anyone has given him much thought and hopefully he will suprise everyone next year.

by Tracker J Dunn on Jan 18, 2012 3:49 AM CST up reply actions

A lot of D problems to fix and could use more OL help but

I have never ever seen so little effort by the DB’s like on the hail mary. Two of them had their backs to the play!!!! . That was crusher # 1 but here was plenty of time to get fired up.

Crusher# 2 was Grants fumble.

Amazing year, and we have never been in better shape but man that was just disgusting to see. I know people will say do not complain but what the hell do you think Lombardi would have said if they played a game like that. Grab Grab Grab….. all year. and then this. He would have had a stroke.

Would sleep better as long as I knew they gave their EVERYTHING. They did not

by TundraBoy on Jan 17, 2012 3:44 PM CST reply actions

Complicated Offseason

This is going to be an interesting offseason. The Packers have stars and talent all over the depth chart. Like previously discussed, our CB positions seem locked at 1 and 2, and Sheilds is an emerging talent at the nickel.

We need Collins to come back, or to find another impact player to play opposite Burnett (who I consider a long term player at Saftey). House has impressed coaches and I believe he’s got the dime back spot on lock.

We’ve got some room for improvement/player addition at DE, OLB, and even DT. I don’t see us looking for MLB, or CBs (assuming we retain our top 3).

The biggest point of confusion for me, is where the Packers plan to improve this offseason. They obviously need to get better, but I can’t understand where we can add 7 or more young players to this team.

by StephanL on Jan 17, 2012 4:31 PM CST reply actions

Williams sucked this year in my opinion.

And what happened to bump and run coverage which worked so well in 2010?

Packers Season

by OznCoop on Jan 17, 2012 6:21 PM CST reply actions

I agree that he wasn't good this year, but...

…he had that shoulder injury and was never the same after that. I maintain that he was never at 100% after that, plus the fact that the entire secondary took a hit this year with the complete lack of pass rush. Him being fully recovered and hopefully an upgrade in some pass rushers this offseason will hopefully cure this “slump.”

On Wisconsin!

by Celtin on Jan 17, 2012 6:49 PM CST up reply actions

Williams was never full strength

He had nerve damage in his shoulder and he never regained full strength. If the nerve damage doesn’t heal we might be looking at having to replace Tramon too. If the nerve regenerates and heals no problem but w/ limited strength in his shoulder he won’t ever be the same player he was last year.

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 17, 2012 10:14 PM CST up reply actions

Hmm, I hadnt heard about the severity of Williams injury.

Still why no bump and run this year? This give the receiver 10yrds from the line of scrimmage is crap

Packers Season

by OznCoop on Jan 17, 2012 10:49 PM CST up reply actions

Can't play Press coverage w/ one arm!

I can’t stand playing 5+ yds off and zone either, but w/ Shields not being able to play good press coverage due to his shoulder, and the pass rush not getting pressure Capers had his hands tied. Its pretty difficult to play off man or zone when you have to send 5 guys to get any pressure. When you send more in pass rush, the best way for it to work is w/ press coverage. Capers was doomed either way.

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by Strohman on Jan 17, 2012 11:01 PM CST up reply actions

Well the zone obvioulsy wasn't working which is why it puzzled me that they didnt at least give the bump and run a fair chance

Packers Season

by OznCoop on Jan 17, 2012 11:14 PM CST up reply actions

What confused me even more

was how we’d match up our ILBs vs. TEs. Can’t tell you how many times I watched bishop get toasted by Gates in the SD game. Not his fault, it’s just bizarre schemes that didn’t work

by PackerFanInTN on Jan 17, 2012 11:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Did you ever see Peprah try and match up with a TE? We tried that against the Bucs and Winslow in the game I attended and he got beat numerous times. I’d honestly almost rather Bishop man up on a TE than Peprah. He was absolutely putrid this season.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Jan 18, 2012 1:17 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah, I didn’t really get that either. I think Strohman is right in saying Capers was doomed either way but I tend to think the bump n’ run would have at least worked some of the time. I mean, we’ve got to play some of the worst zone coverage in the league. It seemed like teams could do whatever they wanted, and in the slight chance that what they wanted wasn’t there, they could just dump it off to the RB underneath for 10 yards.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Jan 18, 2012 1:20 AM CST up reply actions

It was so bad I would have put House in to see what he could do. But unless he could’ve put on 100lbs and put his hand in the dirt, it wouldn’t have solved the bigger problem, probably. :P But no one in the secondary really impressed me beyong Burnett.

by Tracker J Dunn on Jan 18, 2012 3:53 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah, I wanted to see House too but the staff’s love of Jarrett Bush and some injuries probably prevented that from happening.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Jan 19, 2012 7:05 PM CST up reply actions

MIght have been partially about missing Collins too…maybe not as confident in the safeties.

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by TrevorR on Jan 20, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

I would trust TT to draft the right guys

to come in, or bring in a couple guys in free agency. I mean, from my perspective, Green Bay is an attractive franchise to play for—great, young QB leading a dynamic offense, a defense that’s a pass rusher away from being pretty damn good, and a Super Bowl window that’s still pretty damn wide open.

If you’re interested, I’ll trade you secondaries straight up. No takers? Anyone? Bueller?

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by Ted Glover on Jan 17, 2012 6:23 PM CST reply actions

But...the sycophants on your site say the Packers

will need a major rebuild!

Watching the Cubs piss it away for 31 years.

by CarolinaHawk on Jan 17, 2012 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs

A viking fan with fair insight?

Apocalypse!!!!!!

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by TGPackersTwins19 on Jan 17, 2012 9:19 PM CST up reply actions

It's a shame you're associated with what you're associated with.

13.

by Wiedmann on Jan 18, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs

You always have good insight and fair assessments. Thanks for stopping by Ted.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Jan 20, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions

Woodson to Safety

If Collins doesnt come back 100%. He’s obviously better at the line of scrimmage but having him play like Ed Reed would be awesome, but that all depends on how our back up CBs look at camp. As stated above (and for the past 3 years) we need a stand out ROLB and a stout DL man. I wish we had gotten Houstons 2 first draft picks (JJ Watt and Brooks Reed) that would have been perfect.

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by dieapack on Jan 17, 2012 9:02 PM CST reply actions

We need a OLB opposite Matthews. Period. Maybe the right guy hasn’t been available the past couple seasons or maybe Thompson just figured he’d give Jones/Zombo a chance to develop. At this point though, I think we know what we’ve got with those two players and it isn’t much.

If he’s got to trade up to get one, then so be it. It’s not like trading a 2nd or 3rd rounder is going to be fatal to this team. We don’t have a whole lot of holes as it is.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Jan 17, 2012 11:08 PM CST reply actions

Wanted: someone to hang out back behind the line.. a little to the right... perfect.

I completely Agree. (I think) I can understand why TT wanted to go with Jones/Walden/Zombo/So’oto/Lattimore because there could be some good talent in there, that just needs some development. We didn’t have a lot of film on most of these guys, but all had shown some type of promise.

But really I feel like they are all great back-ups and we need a playmaking stud. Either an immediate starter (free agency/trade) or at least someone with an obvious high level of talent who we can get playmaking ability from similar to Aldon Smith (SF) right away. Someone like Courtney Upshaw or Whitney Mercilus, the girlier the name, the better!

As it stands now, I don’t like the decision to go with Walden for most of the year, I don’t think he has shown the playmaking ability required (he’s alright, but ROLB is one of the most important positions on our defense). I’m not sure anyone else got any meaningful playing time, I can only hope they still gained solid development, because I don’t see any of them blossoming into that player yet, this offseason is crucial.

I would hate to part with a second rounder if it wasn’t for Upshaw/Mercilus, I would be okay with a third for Brandon Jenkins/Nick Perry, but even then I’m not exactly sure how much better they are than the next few up (Curry, Lewis, Branch) who should be around at 28. One later round guy I like is Cordarro Law. Looking back at this last draft (still to early to judge fairly) I would rather have grabbed Sam Acho or Justin Houston instead of Alex Green with our 3rd (I do believe they were still around then, or within striking distance).

by Tracker J Dunn on Jan 18, 2012 4:12 AM CST up reply actions

edit

part with an additional second round pick to trade up*

by Tracker J Dunn on Jan 18, 2012 4:14 AM CST up reply actions

Yep, I’d be ok with pretty much any of those guys. Lots of us were pretty vocal about wanting Houston last season but his positive drug test probably did him in with us.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Jan 19, 2012 7:07 PM CST up reply actions