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End of the Year Grades for the NFC North

Well friends the end of the regular season is upon us. It has been a great season for the Packer and one that has been historic for our franchise. Hopefully we can cap this off right and put this team down for the ages in Packer history. In the meantime though this is a perfect time to evaluate what was happening in our neighborhood this past year and see how our rivals measured up against their hype.....also give a nice forum to just make fun of them for a bit because that never gets old either.

Overall I have to say that the NFC North was a disappointment this year. This was supposed to be the year that the NFC North took its place as the best division in the league and for the most part the franchises couldn't deliver. We were suppose to have three teams push for the playoffs and have them dominate the conference. I'm not sure that happened. Part of it is how terrible the Vikings were (more on that in a bit) part of that comes from the Bears folding (more on that too), but if I am going to point the finger anywhere it's going to be Detroit. Maybe I'm being too hard on them, but this is a team that came up small in big games typically. They were able to make to the playoffs for the first time in forever, but having our traditionally worst team become a real contender would of added cred to the division like the old NFC East. Instead with the Lions not showing up in tough games and the Bears getting the injury bug made the division much more average. Tough, sure, but not quite on the level of the AFC North.

Individual grades after the jump.....

Star-divide

The Chicago Bears: D+

I think my running grades might be a bit harsh for some of our rivals, but each has its own version of disappointment to the season in my mind. For the Bears I think this season is one that puts the handwriting on the wall. The Bears are a team that do not have many contending years left in the tank, and for them to come up short this year is unacceptable. Urlacher and Peppers are beasts to be sure, but they are each getting a bit long in the tooth. Briggs is overrated and Cutler and Forte need serious help. With that the Bears made some questionable decisions this offseason (screwing over the Ravens in the draft, trading Greg Olson for a song, signing reject Cowboys by the truckload) and really none of these moves turned out. Roy Williams was terrible. Marion Barber disappointed and flat out cost them the Bronco game. Sam Hurd just went there to spread his drug empire. Meanwhile Jay Cutler didn't have anyone to throw to besides Forte and he just needed Olson to check down to. Worst of all was the fact that there was no back up plan in place for the Bears when their offensive line was simply offensive. When their luck ran out and Cutler and Forte both got hurt when they needed to make a playoff push the Bears came up short and were unable to get the deal done. This failure means more questions around this franchise and another less year for those aging defensive stars that have kept this franchise relevant for about 10 years now. Not good when the team is coming off an NFC Championship appearance.

The Minnesota Vikings: F

Now this is a team that knows something about a disappointing season after an NFCCG appearance. Perhaps this season shouldn't be an F since they were able to cut down on the drama from last year. After all, their stadium didn't collapse this year and only one player was arrested. That's a step in the right direction right? Well, no, it's not good enough Viking fan. The stadium still isn't done and that means MN has to crap or get off the pot. Something has to get done extra fast or the Vikings are gone and that means our nice little division gets a shake up...a distasteful thought. Let me tell you something Viking fan, I lived in Green Bay when the Packers came asking for money and I lived in the Twin Cities when the Vikings were bucking for a new stadium as well. The Packer came when the economy was good and people were happy....they advertised their ass off, they guilted and begged for about a year before the elections. It was bitter and ugly and they barely got what they wanted. The Vikings sat on their ass and worked through back channels until Thanksgiving when it was almost too late and then threw out a couple decent commercials and hoped the politicians would come through for them. It may not be good enough, and if it's not then they share a large part of the blame for that failure and unfortunately the fans suffer a fate not fan should have to go through. I don't wish that on any of my enemies, even you Viking fan.

On the football side the Vikings matched that poor planning in spades. It all started with someone in Winter Park thinking that they had a chance at the playoffs. This spurred some awful decision making such as: trading for Donovan McNabb, holding on to Bernard Berrian, generally being satisfied with their secondary. At the same time they were doing things that teams who are rebuilding were doing like drafting a QB and letting some expensive free agents just walk out the door (Sydney Rice being the most notable) without really making a splash in free agency. I think the most telling move though was the cutting of Bryant McKinnie. Three weeks before the season they cut their starting LT because he was too fat to play. Understandable? Probably. Excusable? No, especially not when you don't have an adequate replacement on your roster. These decisions led to the worst record in franchise history and a top five draft pick. Congratulations Minnesota Vikings, you are not officially the worst team in the division for two years straight, and you have this title all to yourself now. Get used to it cause you are going to be there a while.

The Detroit Lions: B

I really want to make this a C grade. I really do. The reason for this is because the Lions pretty much did what I expected them to do, just in a very disappointing fashion. I figured they would hang around 10-6 and be a wild card team. I just didn't peg them for the sloppy, emotional, and inconsistent team that played small in big games but talked big all the time. Worse many of their fans have adopted this attitude as well. Despite this I have to give a fairly high grade because this season did allow the Lions to put some nasty history behind them. This franchise is part of the greater NFL again and now the organization and its fans have to figure out the etiquette for this new NFL age. For that I guess they get a pass and get a solid B instead of the C+ that I was really think

Look no further than the two Packer games for a snapshot of the Lions' season. In the first one the Lions needed to win to make a statement to NFL that they had arrived. It was Thanksgiving, their most important game. Hell it was a game they haven't won in what four or five years? They needed to win this game. It was circled as soon as the schedule came out, and you knew that every Lion player, coach, and fan wanted this game so bad they could state it. They screamed and banged their chest going into the game because they were going to beat the Packers. I don't know how many Lion fans even went so far as to say they were they constructed to beat the Packers. What happened? The Lions crapped the bed. Sure you could say it was close and all that, but really the Lions just pissed it away with penalties and foolishness. We all know the culmination of that and as soon as that unfortunate event happened and one their best players left the field the air was taken out of the stadium and the Packers blew the Lions out of the water. To follow that up was this past Sunday. The Lions needed a win to have a good match up in the first playoff game in over a decade. They came out and their defense got owned by our backups. That's just epic fail for a playoff team and tells you that this Lion team is just not made of stern stuff when the pressure is on. I don't care how many comebacks you had against lesser teams Lion fan, when you played real teams you failed. Period. If you make it past the Saints then by all means come back here and pound your chest, but we both know that probably isn't going to happen, so just eat crow and realize your team has a ways to go before you make your Super Bowl push. It's coming but this franchise has a long way to go before it gets there.

One side note. I know he threw for oodles of yards against the Packers today, but crap did Matthew Stafford look awful today. He was overthrowing receivers and missing open passes. I'm fully convinced that if Charles Woodson would of been out there then there probably would of been another pick or two because Stafford's accuracy was just not there. How in the world do you over throw Calvin Johnson? [shakes head] You Lion fans seriously expect me to believe that he needs to go to the Pro Bowl over Eli Manning? Why? I can tell you which QB I fear more going into the playoffs. It's the guy who's actually won at Lambeau and can win games when the lights are bright and the pressure is on. Hint: that's not Stafford. Don't get me wrong Stafford is definitely a franchise guy, but you need to understand that he's not that high in the pecking order of QB. I know Lion fan isn't use to having a guy who isn't a reject or a journeyman or both as QB, but also try to have some sense. Stafford has to grow into being an elite QB and a top three to five QB in the NFC. Especially when the one and two spots are going to be taken by Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

The Green Bay Packers. Incomplete

Historic season, but meaningless if there isn't a Super Bowl berth out of this. Despite that potential disappointment that loams ahead I'm going to focus on the positives. Beating the Lions on Thanksgiving when their fans were the most annoying and bragging about how they were going to beat the Packers. Beating the Lions on the last week of the season with our backups (if that doesn't cause a playoff team to have a gut check then nothing but a first round blowout will). Stomping Christian Ponder into the ground on Monday Night Football. Watching Randall Cobb give us a return game. Seeing Aaron Rodgers just put together a magical season that was surprisingly under the radar a bit due to Tebowmania and Drew Brees lighting it up as well. This has been one for the ages, and hopefully the best is yet to come......

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Minnesota Vikings

Congrats on earning yourselves the #3 overall pick. It takes a lot of work to make it into the Top 5. Wait a sec…I’m having a flashback on APC…didn’t a Viking fan come in here saying the Vikings were legit contenders for the NFC North crown? Yes, there was! That was the team goggles and cesspool thread!!!

One game at a time...

by Jabooty on Jan 2, 2012 3:10 AM CST reply actions   4 recs

3-13

LESSTECKEL4VIKINGSCOACH!!!

"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

"We're nobody's underdog!"

"We don't play scared!"

After further review,
the Munsters of the Midway still suck!

by NorthStarr on Jan 2, 2012 3:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Yup…I remember that. A lot of them here felt that way. They are in denial just like their management team was!

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Jan 3, 2012 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

One comment

This stuff is pretty harsh for detroit considering they hadn’t even had a winning season in over a decade. And as far as Stafford goes his accuracy was fine today. And how can you talk about him coming up small in big moments. He got the ball with 3 minutes to go and went down the field and scored to put us ahead again. The defense then crapped the bed. Especially for a guy who is 23 I’d say he is already pretty darn good and still getting better.

Happy new year.

We are taught from an early age how to deal with failure not success. (If at first you don't succeed try try again, if at first you succeed then what....) -Charlie Sheen

I come ready, when I came out the womb I was ready, tell them mama that's why you had me, you knew I was ready. -Moss

Dominating your opposition physically is great and all, but confounding them mentally is sooo much more fun.

2-15-DEN 44(14:36) (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 47 for 3 yards (N.Suh). FUMBLES (N.Suh), RECOVERED by DET-N.Suh at DEN 47. N.Suh to DEN 47 for no gain (K.Moreno). FUMBLES (K.Moreno), recovered by DET-C.Houston at DEN 47. C.Houston to DEN 47 for no gain (O.Franklin). Denver challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 49 for 5 yards (S.Tulloch).

by Redwolf333 on Jan 2, 2012 9:34 AM CST reply actions  

I wasn't impressed by him yesterday

The Green Bay defense hasn’t exactly been lights out this year, even with Woodson and Matthews. Don’t get me wrong, he has all the potential in the world and in a few years we may including him in this discussion. At the moment though, it’s laughable that you guys put him above Eli. Anyways, I look forward to his improvement and this rivalry, good luck in the playoffs.

by Charlie Kelly on Jan 2, 2012 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

That's ridiculous
it’s laughable that you guys put him above Eli.

How is Stafford not better than Eli?

Manning: 359/589 (61.0%); 4933; 29 TDs/16 INTs; 8.4 ypa; 92.9 rating
Stafford: 421/663 (63.5%); 5038; 41 TDs/16 INTs; 7.6 ypa; 97.2 rating

He has him beat in every significant category (aside from ypa), and he’s just massacring him in TDs.

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 2, 2012 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

The exact reasons PA suggested earlier in his post, plus...

His big numbers are a product of the players around him (Megatron, Pettigrew, Scheffler) Like Brees, he played eleven of his games inside, which helps as well. I’m not saying he’s a bad player, but at this moment, I would take Eli over him.

by Charlie Kelly on Jan 2, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Like Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks, etc are chopped liver?

I don’t think that the Giants weapons are really worse than the Lions.

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 2, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

No, they aren't

But Megatron is arguably the best receiver in the league, then you add two dangerous TE’s to the mix and I think it’s still better than what Eli has.

by Charlie Kelly on Jan 2, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I don’t. Not at all actually. I’d rather have 3-4 very talented 1/2 WRs than one elite and some 2/3 guys.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Jan 3, 2012 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Are you implying that Eli doesn’t have weapons? Nicks? Cruz? Bradford? Last year it was Steve Smith, etc.

Pettigrew and Scheffler are the players you want to reference?

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Jan 3, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

personally I still consider Eli a cut above Stafford

football does not build character, it reveals character.

by sheehan on Jan 2, 2012 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

One has won a Super Bowl, one hasn't played in a playoff game

One has played 16 games in a season 7 times, 1 has 1 time. Yes Stafford had a better regular season this year, but I want to see how he does the next few years before I rank him. Were the injuries of the first 2 years a fluke, or was him staying healthy this year a fluke? Were his numbers this year a sign of things to come, or was that a fluke?

And I’m not saying Eli is better because he won a Super Bowl. But Eli has proven he can win in the playoffs. Maybe Stafford will, and it will take more than just next week as Aaron Rodgers lost his first playoff game. But until we see how Stafford performs in the playoffs I’ll hold off on saying he’s better than Eli.

They each had a big game this past weekend. Eli had the better game. Stafford had more yards and TDs, but he also threw 2 picks, Eli had 0 picks.

I won’t be surprised if Stafford ends up better than Eli, but I also won’t be surprised if he doesn’t.

December, 7 1941 may be a day that lives in infamy, but December 6, 2011 is a day that will live in AWESOMENESS!!! The day I became part owner of the Green Bay Packers!

In Cheese We Trust

by Zundar on Jan 2, 2012 7:54 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Eli had little to do with winning that SB

Trent Dilfer has won more SBs than Marino, but that doesn’t make him a better QB. Stafford is in his 3rd year, Eli is in his 8th. Let’s look at Eli’s 8 seasons compared to Stafford’s ‘11 campaign:
This season Stafford had a comp% of 63.5%. Manning’s career season high was 62.9% (‘10)
This season Stafford threw for 5038 yards. Manning’s career season high was 4993 (‘11)
This season Stafford threw for 41 TDs. Manning’s career season high was 31 (‘10)
This season Stafford’s TD% was 6.2. Manning’s career season high was 5.8 (‘10)
This season Stafford threw 16 ints. Manning’s thrown 16 or more ints in 5 of 7 seasons where he started more than half of his team’s games (led the league twice ‘07, ’10).
This season Stafford’s int% was 2.4. Only one season of Manning’s career did he not do worse than that: 2.1 (‘08)
This season Stafford’s TD:Int ratio was 2.5625. Manning’s career season high was 2.1 (‘08)
This season Stafford’s passer rating was 97.2. Manning’s career season high was 93.1 (’09)

I won’t be surprised if Stafford ends up better than Eli, but I also won’t be surprised if he doesn’t.

Stafford already played better this season than Manning ever has.

Eli has proven he can win in the playoffs.

Has he? He’s been to the postseason 4 times & has won a playoff game in only one of those years. He has as many playoff games with a TD as he has playoff games with an int (4). He has never thrown for more than 255 yards in a playoff game, and has thrown for less than 200 a stunning five times. He has never put more than 24 points on the board in the postseason. His first playoff game (a 0-23 shutout):
10/18 (55.6%); 113 yards; 0 TDs/3 ints; 6.28 ypa; 35.0 rating
Face it, his 2007 run (the only time he was part of a playoff win) had little to do with his performance & much more to do with the way the defense was playing (never more than 20 points allowed).

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 2, 2012 11:06 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Did you even read my post?

Hard to tell from your response. I never said Eli has ever done better than Stafford did this season. I said I would like to see Stafford have more than 1 good season before I decide.

And really?

Trent Dilfer has won more SBs than Marino, but that doesn’t make him a better QB.

Did you miss the part where I said that Eli winning the Super Bowl doesn’t make him better?

And yes, Eli has proven he can win in the playoffs. I agree he wasn’t the main reason they won in 2007, but with him at QB they beat the #1 seed in Dallas, the #2 seed at a frozen Lambeau and then the 18-0 Patriots in the Super Bowl. And he really showed he can with the game winning drive in Super Bowl 42.

December, 7 1941 may be a day that lives in infamy, but December 6, 2011 is a day that will live in AWESOMENESS!!! The day I became part owner of the Green Bay Packers!

In Cheese We Trust

by Zundar on Jan 3, 2012 2:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Admittedly, I did write what you quoted before I read your whole post

I left it in because I do feel the ‘00 Ravens & the ’07 Giants were analogous in the sense that the win had more to do with the defense than the QB (albeit more extreme in Dilfer’s case). Stafford has had injury concerns, granted, but his ceiling is way higher than Manning’s, and he’s playing at a higher level right now. You can point to the XLII run as evidence that he can “win in the playoffs”, but Flacco & Sanchez have won in the playoffs, and no way do they belong in the same sentence as Stafford.

Believe me, there’s few things in life that have made me happier than the Giants beating the Patriots, but if your defense has held the highest scoring team in the history of the NFL to 14 points with 2:00 left, and you’re still not leading, anything you do after that doesn’t really impress me. Especially when the signature play of the drive is a circus catch by the WR because he overthrew him.

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 3, 2012 2:36 AM CST up reply actions  

If Stafford plays anywhere near as good as he did this season

I’ll have no problem saying he’s better than Eli.

The injury issue is what I want to see how it turns out. He played all 16 games this season, but he had some a lot of INTs when he played with the broken finger. So injuries had some effect on him this season.

December, 7 1941 may be a day that lives in infamy, but December 6, 2011 is a day that will live in AWESOMENESS!!! The day I became part owner of the Green Bay Packers!

In Cheese We Trust

by Zundar on Jan 3, 2012 3:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Injuries have a lot to do with luck, though

Peyton was supposed to be an ironman, but he didn’t play a down this year. Past injuries (or lack thereof) are not predictors of future events.

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 3, 2012 3:26 AM CST up reply actions  

The Ironic thing regarding the Stafford INTs

before the fractured finger, he had a total of FOUR INTs through the first 8 games, the games against the Bears in Chicago (bad weather conditions as well), the Panthers game, and the Thanksgiving Game against the Packers really kinda tell the story about what the finger injury did. He threw in that 3 game stretch alone NINE of the 16 INTs he had this season, meaning the other 13 games, he only threw 7 the rest of the season (2 against GB in GB, so 5 in 12 other games).

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by MuleRules on Jan 4, 2012 7:23 PM CST up reply actions  

No way Stafford is better

Stats Stats and meaningless Stats
I am a Packer fan living in NY so I have no love for the Giants, but Manning went into GB in January , not all bundled up like Brett. and made me sick watching Brett look like he did not really care. Even if Brett does not blow the game, and our Pack wins Eli showed up and he does in the BIG games. As for yards, TD’s, lets be serious come on LIon’s just throw the ball and mostly playing catch up. He could be great one day but Stafford has not proved a thing yet/

by TundraBoy on Jan 5, 2012 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

He's not quite as accomplished yet

But I think if he out-duels Brees largely by himself in the Superdome to a victory (a tall order) this week that would be a more quality playoff win than any Manning had in ’07.

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 5, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

A more quality win?

Than winning the NFCCG on the road in a Frigid Lambeau, then following it up w/ a W over the otherwise undefeated NE Patriots in the SB? Not a chance!!

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 5, 2012 6:53 PM CST up reply actions   3 recs

My thoughts as well...

the SB especially. The Lambeau one….well, a certain someone had a lot to do with that outcome on our side of the ball.

In Every Climb and Place....

by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 5, 2012 7:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Manning at least showed up for that game. Favre mailed it in at about 8am… Soon as he found out the game time temp, Favre was looking to get off the field as quick as he could. Favre helped give the NYG the game, but Manning played pretty well considering the circumstances IIRC.

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 5, 2012 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

...

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jan 5, 2012 8:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm with Stroh on this one

Stafford winning in a dome against a horrid defense would not be nearly as impressive as either Eli’s NFC Championship win, or the Super Bowl win (specifically the drive that won it).

football does not build character, it reveals character.

by sheehan on Jan 5, 2012 11:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm just going by what my eyes told me

As I watched that game I was underwhelmed by Stafford. He had good stats sure, but let’s be honest here about his performance with a couple things…..

1. He threw for 520 yards sure, but 244 of those went to Calvin Johnson. That means nearly half of his yards in that historic performance went to one guy. When that one guy is a special receiver like Johnson I’m not going to be wowed by the QB. I’m just not. Disagree all you want but most QB’s in the league can do that with a guy like Johnson.

2. After Johnson the majority of yards came from TE’s, most notably Pettigrew. That’s fine, but if you know this Packers defense again that isn’t very over whelming. That puts him up there with such greats as Kyle Orton. If you want to tell me Stafford ranks as high as him I will totally understand.

3. Stafford’s performance today was without the Packers two best defenders (three if you include Collins). Thus I’m not going to going to be wowed by a big performance against a unit that would be out in the second quarter of a preseason game. If he can’t have that kind of day against that defense then he shouldn’t even be a starter in this league.

4. As for accuracy, well I remember watching late in the third quarter and they had Stafford’s accuracy up and it was in the high 50’s. Again, if he can’t complete 60% of his passes against a second unit of a bad defense then he’s just not a Pro Bowl QB. Is he good enough to be a franchise guy for you? Sure. Is he a top three in the conference? No. Just no.

As for my harsh stance on the Lions….well they did what was expected. Most people who knew what they were talking about like the Lions as a wild card with a record of 10-6….this was even more so after the hot start they had. As a result I’m not going to go ga ga over a team that meets its expectations. That’s a C grade and then going back to the drawing board. Add in the fact that the Lions lost to every one of the playoff teams they played and this playoff doesn’t look good for the Lions….despite the fact that they are playing with house money.

I get that this year was good for your franchise. I get that it was a time to re-envision what it means to be a Lions fan. That’s all good. You also have to realize that Lion fans and their team earned a bit of a bad reputation this year and the team lost in big games consistently this year. That means they have a lot to build on, but also a long way to go.

by PackApologist on Jan 2, 2012 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

.....

1: Why doesn’t TJ Yates throw for over 400 yards a game with a guy like Andre Johnson? You can’t fault a guy for having the best receiver in the game. You also can’t fault him for throwing it to him. He’d be shitted on for NOT throwing him the ball 10+ times a game.

2: So you’re faulting him again for having good talent. Plus, Brady has the two best TE’s in the game now, you going to say he doesn’t deserve a 5000 yard season either?

3: Guarantee most QB’s don’t throw for over 520 yards on you guys, even without your top two defensive players. Actually, no one in Lions history has done that. Throwing for over 500 yards is insane no matter what.

4: The Lions also had like 5 drops that game. Take those into account.

He’s a top 5 QB. Don’t doubt it.

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by Bighaircut on Jan 2, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Seeing as how the Packers defense has given up the most yards in NFL history

I think it’s very likely another QB could do that to us (Especially without our two stars)

Andre Johnson has been battling injury and TJ Yates is obviously not very good (Or just inexperienced) Nobody said that Stafford was bad, just that he looks much better with Johnson catching his passes.

by Charlie Kelly on Jan 2, 2012 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Andre Johnson's either been hurt or playing hurt for most of the season

and Stafford is top ten, but definitely not top 5.

football does not build character, it reveals character.

by sheehan on Jan 2, 2012 6:46 PM CST up reply actions  

He's top 5 in these statistics this season

Completion percentage (5th)
Yards (3rd)
TDs (3rd)
TD% (4th)
Passer rating (5th)

Yes, he has thrown 16 ints; it seems like a lot since we have Rodgers as our QB, but Eli Manning has also thrown 16, Brees has thrown 14, and Brady has thrown 12. I have a hard time placing him lower than the 4th best QB this season from a purely passing standpoint.

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 2, 2012 11:19 PM CST up reply actions  

cool, there's more to the position than JUST raw statistics

I wouldn’t place him above any of Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Rivers, or either Manning. I would place him roughly equal to Ben Roethlisberger and Jay Cutler (I have a higher opinion of Cutler and what he’s been able to do with no receivers and no offensive line in Chicago than most people do, so don’t consider this an insult)

football does not build character, it reveals character.

by sheehan on Jan 3, 2012 12:08 AM CST up reply actions  

What has Rivers or Eli done outside of the statistics?

Stafford has turned around a club that hadn’t made the playoffs since 1991, and was 0-16 to get the #1 overall pick to take him.

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 3, 2012 12:59 AM CST up reply actions  

*1999

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 3, 2012 1:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Stafford has turned around the Lions?

I wonder what the best receiver in the league and those two very good TEs were doing the whole time. Also, a defense that before last Sunday was playing pretty well. Stafford played his part but to attribute Detroit’s resurgence solely to him is like saying Brett Favre alone made Green Bay relevant in the 90’s.

by Charlie Kelly on Jan 3, 2012 7:54 AM CST up reply actions  

On good TE, one very good. Lets not oversell Scheffler.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Jan 3, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Hate that guy.

I already told you! I deal with the god damn receivers so the linebackers don’t have to! I have coverage skills; I’m good at covering people! Can’t you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!

by msc32887 on Jan 4, 2012 5:01 PM CST up reply actions  

For better or for worse, team accomplishments are given to the QB

Like how people will say Brady won three SBs.

Certainly Calvin & the other players had something to do with it, but Stafford was the QB so he gets most of the credit.

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 3, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

You say this

yet you won’t give Eli credit for winning a Super Bowl?

December, 7 1941 may be a day that lives in infamy, but December 6, 2011 is a day that will live in AWESOMENESS!!! The day I became part owner of the Green Bay Packers!

In Cheese We Trust

by Zundar on Jan 3, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't like the QB getting credit for team accomplishments at all

but when in Rome…

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 3, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

No

apparently, when in Detroit…

…but not when in New York. What happens when you go to Green Bay?

by Ben T on Jan 4, 2012 5:25 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

What happens when you go to Green Bay?

You see 13 Championship Trophies.

"I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
— Hunter S. Thompson

by I voted for Kodos on Jan 6, 2012 9:28 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Rivers has gotten his team to the playoffs numerous times…same with Eli. Why is it an accomplishment for one guy and ignored for another. The Lions making the playoffs is about a lot more than just Stafford.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Jan 3, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Stafford

I like him a lot, and I think he should have been a Pro Bowl selection over Eli. But, I don’t think he has played consistently great for long enough to conclude that he is a top 5 QB right now. I do think he has a very good chance to get there.

On Eli, have you watched him much this year? Talk all you want about the talent around him, but if you watch the throws he made in the Cowboys game, he could have been throwing to Hank Baskett. He delivered the ball perfectly from very difficult, pressured positions (TWSS). I think Eli is a top 5 QB.

by Ben T on Jan 5, 2012 8:10 AM CST up reply actions  

He's taken Peyton's place in the top 5...

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 5, 2012 8:17 AM CST up reply actions  

he made some unbelievable throws

but he also pulled a Favre and started thinking he could fit it into any window even if a guy was blanketed. It worked on that one completion to Megatron on the last drive, but it also ended up costing them the game when he got intercepted.

football does not build character, it reveals character.

by sheehan on Jan 2, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, my predictions were off a bit this year in the NFC North

Before the season started, I said this in another Packers group:

I predict based on each team’s schedule, the Pack will be 12-4 on average. (Worst I have them going is 11-5 with a loss to the Bears at Soldier field) Chicago will go either 9-7 at best or 8-8 missing the playoffs. Detroit clinches a 6th seed with a record of 10-6 (I’m being very optimistic about the Lions given their early draft choices and sheer competitiveness and hunger) and the BiQueens without a decent QB fall down to the cellar of the NFC North at 6-10.
April 30 at 9:33pm · Like · 2 people

I was waaaay to optimistic about the Vikings and way too pessimistic about The Pack. Oh well.

When life gives ya lemons, shut up and eat your damn lemons.
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLVI, Guaranteed! - REVENGE4FAVRE

by P-Townfan on Jan 2, 2012 9:37 AM CST reply actions  

Sorry PA, don't like it...

Are you grading the team or the fans? Gotta be one or the other… Can’t hold the team accountable for their fans.

Season played out like I expected. Except for a couple unexpected things. Chicago was a playoff team except for the Cutler and Forte injuries. They were what 7-3 before Cutler went down. When Forte went down the wheels just came off completely. I give them a C+ just for the fact that they would have been a playoff team w/o the injuries. I do agree however that the FO wasn’t prepared in case Cutler got injured, but given the dearth of QB talent in the NFL, thats pretty much an epidemic.

Lions are an undisciplined team cuz the team leaders and just as importantly the HC are young. Just 3 years ago I remember alot of Packer fans saying that the Packers were an undisciplined team for all the penalties that plagued them. You know what happened they Grew up in front of our eyes! This year they were the LEAST penalized team. Schwartz needs to temper his reactions a little cuz it does affect his team. I expected them to have a shot at the playoff but fall short due to the youth of the leaders. But they got in the Playoffs! Gotta give them a solid B+/A-… They outperformed my expectations…

Viqueens are a mess no way around it… Ponder might be a pretty good QB someday, but other than him and Peterson and Harvin they have no talent, the D is another year older and in going to keep declining. Now Peterson has the trifecta of a knee injury and is looking at about 18 months before he’ll be the same, if he ever will. They get an D+ at best…

Do like your Packer piece… To this point everything has happened as expected. So far they have met all the goals, so I don’t know about giving an incomplete. But you are correct in that the only way the season is successful is if they win the SB, so it is hard to judge them w/o knowing how it ends.

Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!

by Strohman on Jan 2, 2012 9:58 AM CST reply actions  

Are you grading the team or the fans? Gotta be one or the other… Can’t hold the team accountable for their fans.

This is one of the most civil things I think I’ve ever seen you say. And yeah, I got the same impression from the article.

Just 3 years ago I remember alot of Packer fans saying that the Packers were an undisciplined team for all the penalties that plagued them. You know what happened they Grew up in front of our eyes! This year they were the LEAST penalized team.

It’s because the Packers are NFL/media darlings and they want the Packers to win everything while holding down other teams (like the Vikings).

/DN’d

In Every Climb and Place....

by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 2, 2012 4:21 PM CST up reply actions   4 recs

He's been that way for a couple days now.

I think Stroh had a good NYE.

Packers: Working on a dynasty.
Blackhawks: Taking care of business as usual.
Badgers:Chin up, boys.
Brewers: Move along, nothin' to see here.

by Tepo6688 on Jan 3, 2012 1:55 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I have to disagree with the grade for the Bears.

I would give them a solid C considering they probably make the playoffs if Cutler and Forte aren’t hurt. Speaking of Bears injuries, has anyone heard anything about Urlacher? I heard it may be a torn MCL and PCL, and I’ve also heard it as a slight MCL sprain.

I agree with the grades for the Vikings and Lions. By trading for McNabb, the Vikings showed they were still trying to win and they failed miserably at that. The Lions have to get a B just for making the playoffs, and I can see some parallels to the 2009 Packers. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, I don’t think they will turn it around as quick as the Packers did. I think the difference comes down to coaching. McCarthy’s demeanor tends to lead to a more disciplined attitude, while Schwartz is too firery of a coach to ever instill that discipline in his team. I think stupid penalties and lack of focus will plague this team as long as he is their coach, and it may end up costing them from realizing their full potential.

Packers' Magic Numbers:
Clinch Division = DONE!!!
Clinch 1st Rd Bye = DONE!!!
Clinch Homefield = DONE!!!

by Bezerkers on Jan 2, 2012 10:41 AM CST reply actions  

Second the Motion

Can’t figure out what persuaded Vikings’ management that the team was one player away from contending—and that McNabb was that player. Serious rebuilding needed here; not sure if there is enough current FO competence to carry it off. If Bears’ D has one more season left, they could be competitive next year, although I remain to be convinced that Cutler isn’t just Sanchez with a stronger arm. Schwartz looks like he’s from the Billy Martin school of management: he burns white-hot, the team responds to the emotional intensity, then wears out. It works in college with the turnover; maybe Schwartz can make it sustainable with pros in Detroit.

by 1-10-1 on Jan 2, 2012 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Bill Parcels made the firery approach work

So don’t tell me that we can’t win with him. Also like was said above we are a really young team and are growing up every week. We also have a balance Schwartz is the emotional one and Stafford is the calm collected one. It helps balance our team espn even had a piece on it.

Listen to this interview it helps explain why the team was so undisaplined and how they are turning it around. http://www.nfl.com/videos/detroit-lions/09000d5d82548083/One-win-and-in

We are taught from an early age how to deal with failure not success. (If at first you don't succeed try try again, if at first you succeed then what....) -Charlie Sheen

I come ready, when I came out the womb I was ready, tell them mama that's why you had me, you knew I was ready. -Moss

Dominating your opposition physically is great and all, but confounding them mentally is sooo much more fun.

2-15-DEN 44(14:36) (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 47 for 3 yards (N.Suh). FUMBLES (N.Suh), RECOVERED by DET-N.Suh at DEN 47. N.Suh to DEN 47 for no gain (K.Moreno). FUMBLES (K.Moreno), recovered by DET-C.Houston at DEN 47. C.Houston to DEN 47 for no gain (O.Franklin). Denver challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 49 for 5 yards (S.Tulloch).

by Redwolf333 on Jan 2, 2012 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I never said they couldn't be successful.

I’m pointing out that an undisciplined team has less margin for error when they go up against better teams. They can get away with that stuff against the Vikings and Panthers, but not against the Packers or Saints. You say they’re turning it around, but they had 11 penalties yesterday, 9 against the Raiders, 10 against the Vikings, 11 against the Saints, 11 the first time they played the Packers. Sure they only had 3 against the Chargers, but in statistics that’s what’s referred to as an outlier.

Packers' Magic Numbers:
Clinch Division = DONE!!!
Clinch 1st Rd Bye = DONE!!!
Clinch Homefield = DONE!!!

by Bezerkers on Jan 2, 2012 5:00 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Not Exactly

Parcells was a master psychological manipulator, and knew which buttons to push. He knew when to breathe fire, and when to modulate, depending on the player and the circumstance. Schwartz appears to have a very narrow range—all in, all the time. He may mature; if not, he will burn out himself (and the Lions) in a hurry.

by 1-10-1 on Jan 2, 2012 7:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I kinda liked there team before the season and had them in the playoffs stating that several times here and at POD

They will be one and done this year and have a hard time making it back next year. On defense there best playmaker this year IMO Arvil won’t be back (talk of franchising him but they can’t afford it, top 10 picks, CJ, Safford, Suh really take a toll on salary cap nearly like 50%). Other playmakers for them C. Williams(former Packer) and Vander Bosch are well over that 30 year old mark. Mayhew hit on Tulloch there best linebacker but only signed him to one year now it is going to cost if they are to keep him. Wright was a decent find at CB only a 1 year contract now it is going to cost them.

To me Backus is not a very good LT at 34 but he’s a FA and the only option I see on the team ans RAioli at C is well over 30 and not good at all with a few more years on a expensive contract.

I may be wrong but I think where Detroit was drafting only a idiot couldn’t turn it around(Matt Millen) but I’m not sure there poised to take the next step. I think they’ll take a step back next year. Feelings aside I’d give them a solid B for the year

by the yooper on Jan 2, 2012 11:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I know…the trade for McNabb was laughable. Put him on a team with a suspect Oline, one decent WR…recipe for disaster. That is one team that needs to wake up and realize its full all out rebuilding time. I think most of the fans realize it now.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Jan 3, 2012 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Would have been more honest...

if you titled it, the “Let’s laugh at the other teams/fans in our division” post.

Looking forward to the Packers three-peating and visiting President Ron Paul at the White House in 2013

by PackFaninFL on Jan 2, 2012 11:07 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Well...

I mean, if you want people to read the articles in the future it might be a good thing.

I didn’t hate the article at all and liked some of the analysis but you did kinda mention other team’s fans a lot for an article about the teams themselves (or at least that’s what I thought it would be about).

In Every Climb and Place....

by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 2, 2012 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

But in all seriousness...

Vikings get a D- … The McNabb move was disastrous, even for a sixth rounder. Their secondary is beyond putrid and their WRs are less the overwhelmingly. Those two in combination are just terrible in a pass first, pass middle and pass last league.

Bears, B- … tough to grade because they were doing very well till Cutler got injured. Not to mention Forte. So I’m not going be to tough on them. Their defense is still A material in my book…

Detroit B … solid B. Won 14 out of last 20 games (.700 winning percentage). They have lots of skill position talent, obviously. They really need a better, ball hawking secondary…they get the pressure and the push up front to make them dangerous if they get ball hawks back there. Remind me in many regards (b/c penalities, discipline, secondary issues, great young QB, emerging WRs) of the 2009 pack. Will be a major challenge next year.

Looking forward to the Packers three-peating and visiting President Ron Paul at the White House in 2013

by PackFaninFL on Jan 2, 2012 11:17 AM CST reply actions  

If you end up with a top five pick in the draft you have failed

I don’t see how the Vikings get any kind of passing grade when they put up one of the worst seasons in franchise history and are looking at a total rebuild at multiple position groups. Seasons like that get people fired, and when a franchise does that badly and no one gets fired well that’s just more fail.

For me you need to look at the expectations of the season and then how it all washed out for the team. The Bears were thought to be the team that was going to give us headaches and possibly be Super Bowl contenders….at the very least they were suppose to make more noise in the division and play chase. Instead they just fell apart down the stretch and now have more questions than answers. If C is doing what you are suppose to and meeting expectations then they are below that.

by PackApologist on Jan 2, 2012 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

How can.....

the Pack have an incomplete when their season isn’t done and yet the Lions are graded out when their season isn’t done? Other than that I got a good laugh out of this one.

by bnbfishin on Jan 2, 2012 12:56 PM CST reply actions   3 recs

Because the Lions are playing with house money

The Lions season is not going to be defined by what they do in the post season. They can go one and done or they can win a game or two and either way the season is a success. For the Packers it’s different. There are different expectations and so they are going to be graded differently.

by PackApologist on Jan 2, 2012 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, but couldn't their grade change based on what happens in the postseason?

Just like the Packers? The Packers have lived up to their expectations in the regular season, as have the Lions.

You either need to give both teams grades or give both teams incomplete.

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 2, 2012 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

House money talks, BS walks……..I’d put on your shoes and hit the door.
Did anyone expect the Pack to go 15-1? Hell no but we sure hoped they would go 16-0. I’m very happy with what they have done this season and even if they don’t win or go to the SB they have done the best they could to get to the point that gives them and 11 other teams the option to go all the way.No fan should realistically expect more from their team than to have a chance. If the team aint done they can’t be graded out yet.

by bnbfishin on Jan 2, 2012 10:25 PM CST up reply actions  

What an awful article

If Stafford looked so awful then why did Peter King say that he needed to save the video of every single one of his snaps and show it to his grand-kids because of how great he was? 520 yards and 5 TDs but he was awful? OK dude, you obviously know more than Peter King….smh

by kevster on Jan 4, 2012 2:23 PM CST reply actions  

Lots of Folks Know More Than Peter

Anything King writes or says must be discounted for the fact that he’s covered the NFL for way too many seasons, and was long ago co-opted by the league, team managements, and players. He maintains access by rarely saying a discouraging word, and is basically a cheerleader rather than a reporter. It’s a variation on the Stockholm Syndrome.

by 1-10-1 on Jan 4, 2012 3:24 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

He maintains access by rarely saying a discouraging word…
It’s a variation on the Stockholm Syndrome.

So….

He does what he has to do to keep his job?

I’d take that over the Skip Bayless method of reporting.

In Every Climb and Place....

by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 4, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

So Would I...

…but it’s important to recognize that King is a shill and Bayless is a witless bomb-thrower, and to measure both against those realities. Neither qualifies for the sports reporting HOF; the NFL deserves better.

by 1-10-1 on Jan 4, 2012 6:49 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I actually think Peter King is a pretty good sports writer....

the only thing I didn’t really like about him was how homerish he can come across as you stated above, but then again, I don’t think writers need to be discouraging in order to make their point. He still has positives and negatives for different teams (look at the backlash this week by NE fans because he said they are in trouble with their defense, then failed to mention GB’s defense in the same argument).

Skip Bayless isn’t a writer/reporter/journalist. In fact I’m not really sure what he is. But he also doesn’t have a weekly column, isn’t one of the more respected football analysts, and won’t be remembered for anything he’s done.

In Every Climb and Place....

by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 4, 2012 7:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Communist propoganda

:P

Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne

by abba7 on Jan 4, 2012 10:38 PM CST reply actions  

It's a Party!

13.

Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!

by Wiedmann on Jan 4, 2012 10:52 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

I give you both high Marx for these comments

You’ve really studied this from all Engels.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jan 5, 2012 2:03 PM CST up reply actions   4 recs

How does this website

keep Putin up you guys?

Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne

by abba7 on Jan 5, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions   4 recs

Mao Mao Mao

Who are you to Castro the first stone?

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jan 5, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions   3 recs

Your comments are making me

Kim Jong ill!

Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne

by abba7 on Jan 5, 2012 3:49 PM CST up reply actions   4 recs

Well, we can't Trotsky out the same old tired arguments every day, can we?

Nice of you to Chi Minh though. You really added to the conversation.

In Every Climb and Place....

by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 5, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions   4 recs

Something about Papa Smurf

Packers: Working on a dynasty.
Blackhawks: Taking care of business as usual.
Badgers: Chin up, boys.
Brewers: Move along, nothin' to see here.

by Tepo6688 on Jan 5, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

You Reds...

…are always looking for an Engels

by 1-10-1 on Jan 5, 2012 7:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Now

I will have to smoke some Pol Potts (kinda reaching)

Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne

by abba7 on Jan 5, 2012 8:38 PM CST up reply actions  

You have a good group over here PPF

except for the Packers thing!

Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne

by abba7 on Jan 5, 2012 9:12 PM CST up reply actions  

White people...

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jan 5, 2012 9:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Where da white women at?!?!

Oh. Nevermind.

Packers: Working on a dynasty.
Blackhawks: Taking care of business as usual.
Badgers: Chin up, boys.
Brewers: Move along, nothin' to see here.

by Tepo6688 on Jan 5, 2012 10:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Can't trust a one of them!

Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne

by abba7 on Jan 6, 2012 1:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, nobody's perfect....

err, wait a mintue. HEY!

In Every Climb and Place....

by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 5, 2012 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne

by abba7 on Jan 5, 2012 2:29 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Packer D

I like that everyone is writing off Pack D. Can not wait for real games to start

by TundraBoy on Jan 5, 2012 10:45 AM CST reply actions  

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