A Painful Look At The Packers Defensive Line
by Brandon on Jan 25, 2012 9:01 AM CST
in Green Bay Packers Analysis
Email
PrintC.J. Wilson: 2011 Green Bay Packers Evaluation and Report Card | AllGreenBayPackers.Com. Reading this article, and then looking back at Bob McGinn's defensive report card, has made me think that finding an upgrade on the defensive line has to be the Green Bay Packers top offseason priority.
B.J. Raji wasn't as good last season, and Ryan Pickett was overpaid considering his production, but at least they both deserved to play. I'm not sure I can say that about anyone else.
NT Howard Green. He was a life saver in 2010, and his hit on Ben Roethlisberger turned into a Nick Collins pick-six during the Super Bowl, but he did nothing in 2011. He's big and can backup at nose tackle, but he doesn't have much of a resume to stand on if the Packers have to make a decision about him.
DE Mike Neal. The fact that he could be converted to LB is probably all you need to know about how useless he was last season on the defensive line. Does he deserve another season to prove he can stay healthy? Or have we seen this injury-proneness before and we might as well let him go?
DE C.J. Wilson. One pressure every 113.4 snaps. I guess he was a 7th round pick for a reason. He seems to be decent against the run.
DE Jarius Wynn. He impressed me with his strong play towards the end of the 2010 season, and then he got off to a quick start with 3 early sacks in 2011. His rate of one pressure for every 46.7 snaps is one of the best on the Packers (a low bar to clear for sure). But he had zero sacks after September 25th and basically disappeared at the end of the season.
My main problem with all four of those defensive lineman is that (with the exception of Wynn back in September) they made few (if any) plays to force a turnover and they had zero sacks. They have to make more big plays.
The Packers are never much for the free agent market anyway, so this seems like a position that has to be addressed in the draft. I've been wanting the Packers to draft an outside linebacker/outside pass rusher with a high draft pick for the last couple years, and I was leaning that direction again in 2012.
He doesn't have to be a college defensive tackle who would play as a 3-4 DE. The right college DE who could provide an inside pass rush and play with good technique against the run could be a good fit. A smaller defensive lineman could be subbed for on rushing downs by someone like Green or Wilson who could be kept in the role of a run stuffer.
53 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
this is a complete oversimplification, but...
I feel like there are problems on the roster that are only there because it was hard to justify cutting guys after the contributed to a Super Bowl run. The line is a perfect example: Howard Green got a real contract for the first time in his career, Wilson and Wynn were both given a chance. Beyond the line: AJ Hawk got a new contract, Charlie Peprah (who wasn’t on any roster in early 2010) was kept around.
The Packers never signed Green to a contract
Howard Green got a real contract for the first time in his career
He was still playing for the contract he got from the New York Jets, which became our responsibility when we claimed him off of waivers.
13.
"Skip, once again, stop it; Be an analyst; don't be a douchebag."
Simple
Trying to make either Raji or Picckett a defensive end was a HUGE mistake (pun intended). Neither possess the speed nor agility it takes to play DE. They are BOTH NTs!!
They need to draft either a TRUE DE or at least a bookend outside LB to play opposite Matthews. Then & only then can U play more man to man coverage in the secondary.
by Forrest Miller on Jan 25, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
To many holes to rely on the draft
Sure we can make a couple of key aquistions in the draft, but they often take a little time to mature and contribute. With the holes we have on the D side of the ball, this is a year when something must be done in Free Agency.
by GreenandGolder on Jan 25, 2012 10:54 AM CST reply actions
Just think
Carlos Rodgers, Cliff Avril, Mario Williams…
by GreenandGolder on Jan 25, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Think about the money and salary cap
Williams and Avril are gonna get good sized contracts. Rarely does production match contract in FA.
Mario's pretty good.
He keeps out of trouble, keeps his mouth shut, and the dude plays. I think it would be awesome if TT would go after him. I like the draft first philosophy, but sometimes you do need to get one or two guys off of FA to help give the team that extra push.
Garage sales drive me insane. What is that? I don't know. One man's junk is another man's junk.
by TXPackerBacker on Jan 25, 2012 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
way too expensive
football does not build character, it reveals character.
This!
Rarely does production match contract in FA.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"We're nobody's underdog!"
"We don't play scared!"
After further review,
the Munsters of the Midway still suck!
GBPs Defense
IMO GBs problems on defense ALL stem from no DL, everybody else played more or less the same. Clay never was very good in coverage, Des fair, AJ good leader and fill guy oh no not another pass, Sam could you just tackle him, Tramon was the only disappoint this year, I DIDN’T SEE SIR CHARLES PLAY NT THIS SEASON LOL, Peprah player the same steady game as last year, and Morgan was the swap. He played very well, but he isn’t Nick. Even the swap of Morgan for Nick and Tramon’s tough year it wasn’t the above list that was the problem, it was the DL.
Two years ago, the right, OLB, wait I mean weak OLB’s, were able to cause problems because the line ate up there line. This gave Clay the ability and even the D L to get back in it for sacks or hurries. This year BJ playered TOO many downs. He should be playing about 60% of the downs, but it appeared to me that he was playing more like 80%. Somebody his size you want to be able to bring it on EVERY down rather than JUST be there every down. With Pickett and Jenkins they got so they could put in any linemen in and it worked, but they had a fresh bodies and enough bodies.
Have to agree
It really starts with the D line, no pressure and the others just are not as good.
by I bleed green more on Jan 26, 2012 7:16 PM CST up reply actions
Ted not a free agent guy, but a couple of these would be worth a gamble..
Antonio Garay (SD) – NT
Calais Campbell (ARZ) – DE
Jason Jones (TEN) – DT
Sione Pouha (NYJ) – NT
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
forgot Ngata..but Ravens probably dont let him go
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
No way the Ravens let him go.
He’s one of the two most important players on that defense right now. The guy who called out Skip Bayless is the other.
Author at Acme Packing Company
Campbell
AZ would be idiotic to let Campbell go! He is probably the best young 34 DE in the NFL, not to mention probably the best player on their Defense. He doesn’t get the credit like others, but is far better than Dockett. He would cost HUGE money to sign, that said, if he hits the FA market, he makes perfect sense if Thompson can pull the trigger and find the cap room.
We certainly do NOT need another NT type. And jason jones doesn’t fit very well IMO, and probably has no interest in playing in a 34 scheme.
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
I feel like the entire front seven is two guys away
Just that right side… the DE and OLB. Upgrade these two positions, and it will do wonders for the defense. Plus, I think some heat off of Raji will help him return to his 2010 form (and benefit Picket as well).
Unfortunately, we might only get immediate help at one position. Do we address one over the other in free agency or the draft? Does Ted just rank both DEs and OLBs and when were up take whoever he is highest on?
Shit happens when you win championships
Fletcher Cox?
This is from SBNation’s latest mock draft: 28. Green Bay Packers, Fletcher Cox, DE, Mississippi State. Green Bay’s defense needs help in the secondary, but not to the extent they need strength up front. Cox gives them help against the run. He also has the ability to disrupt the pocket from the five-technique spot, something the Packers really need.
Hes a guy I like
Good pass rusher, and good in run D. The question is if he can hold 2 gaps, which I think he can.
Einstein
The only guy worth talking about is Raji. If his production was down this year the cause was more the men around Raji then Raji. You can’t grade in a vacuum. I asked the question then, and now the unfortunate answer is obvious. How could TT let Jenkins go without a fight, especially when the only guy on the radar was an unproven rookie? Many of us assume TT walks on water, but he drowned on this one, and everyone knew it but TT. We need at least 2 defensive linemen, and the draft can’t do it alone. Ideally, the Packers need someone who can not only provide pressure, but can be a leader as well. The unit was rudderless this year. There’s something bad going on that hasn’t been reported.
Starting over
In general, it should be obvious that NFL defenses need to adjust to multi-weaponed offenses like the Packers, Saints, and Patriots. We need speed, speed and more speed from backers and backs. They have to be able to cover. The entire defense line, with the sole exception of Raji MUST be upgraded since needing pressure is obvious. Peprah is too slow. AJ has had his day and it’s long gone. He’s the epitome on non-instinctive.
Theres a saying
Its never as good as it looks, and its never as bad as it looks. Our D is not as bad as it looks. We just need one or two guys to step up. Be it through the draft / FA / development. Getting a solid DE will go a long ways for us.
by Shoes31 on Jan 25, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Have to agree
I do believe just one or two more on the D line really pass rushers will make a big difference. I do not know if that is the total answer but we need to start some where.
by I bleed green more on Jan 26, 2012 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
We can be the 1st team in the NFL
to start a season with no DL.
Raji is exhausted
Green is done
Pickett is old
Neal is broken
Wynn loses a lot
and last but not least
Wilson is auditioning for the role of “WILSON” in Cast Away II
You hit the nail (line) on the head.
Raji needs help, lots and lots of help. Pickett is still serviceable, if they get some horses to work up front.
Dont listen to McGinn's and other analysts ramblings
They are just upset and are taking it out. Wilson was a rookie last year, and really needed the offseason to get better. The lockout prevented that from happening. In fact, the lockout really hurt our D due to having a lot of young players being counted on.
Neal won’t be converted to OLB. I would be immensely surprised if that happened. Remember when they were talking about Jenkins playing OLB?
I agree its unlikely that Green is brought back, and Wynn is almost miscast in our system. But Pickett was a force in the run game.
This, all of this
I think we could use an upgrade at OLb and maybe another highly picked DE invade Wilson doesn’t deelop when he does have a training camp or Neal or him can’t stay healthy. After that it seems like overreaction. Raji needs a little more rest so he is t worn down and we should be ok. All of our linemen aren’t useless and not signing Jenkins didn’t sink our franchise. Thank you Shoes
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 25, 2012 1:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
spot on my friend..this was my response.. Mine's a little longer winded but the same message..
Bums?This D- Defense was 4 offensive/special teams turnovers away from playing in an NFC Championship, excluding the game 16 scrimmage-they allowed 18.8 pts/game (D pts allowed-D pts.scored) #6 NFL. D-line effectively dominated the Giants running game.Everyone knows now that the loss of Jenkins adversely effected the pass rush exponentially because it indirectly affected Clays #’s(double teams)I believe if Niners D played against those turnover ratios they would have been humiliated the same way—or worse. I TOTALLY put the loss on our Offense and defensive secondary-Turnovers, turnovers-4 less drives for us and 4 more drives for Eli—on a short field on at least 3? Letting receivers run 50 yards downfield without being touched inside 5 yards?? Im not a genius here but I blame Dom Capers for the same formula that burned us during the Arizona playoff game..3 man rush drop 8 prevent against a playoff caliber QB is the death to an organization.. dont blame the 3 men..blame the D coordinator
When you revised out points allowed,
Did you do the same for the other 31 teams? I find it unlikely that we’re that high in terms of points allowed. I was a big defender of the D last season, but now in hindsight, I see I was in denial. I’m not saying we need to go and completely rebuild the D. But everyone can see in the end, it all came down to having no pass rush at all. It culminated in the divisional matchup. And while the offense does get it’s fair share of the blame with all those turnovers, not blaming the front of the defense is not the way to go.
*Proud Packers shareholder*
With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg!
by RaY210 on Jan 26, 2012 9:31 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
These are my words and not the ramblings of named or un-named analysts.
When each player gets graded and the marks are low,excuses,reasons,what ifs all come in defense at some level and by almost everyone.
I simply stated what I believe to be a quick,basic,analysis of the DL.What I said is equal to the grades of C,C-,D,B- etc.and who got what is open for guess work.
This isn’t emotional but plain as day viewing.
Yes, you certainly are no analyst
13.
"Skip, once again, stop it; Be an analyst; don't be a douchebag."
by Wiedmann on Jan 25, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I get the impression that you think you were being clever with this response
I feel obligated to let you know that you only made yourself look dumber.
football does not build character, it reveals character.
Seeing what JJ Watt did in Houston
is encouraging. If we can draft a solid DL with that first pick, it should make Raji a little bit better, the ROLB a little bit better, the secondary a little bit better, and so on.
Getting an impactful ROLB would dramatically increase that. Despite developing a year in the off-season, I just don’t think we have that guy on our roster. Maybe a stud DL will greatly improve the guys we have, but …
Taking a DL with out first pick also limits what we can get in the draft. We can still get a OLB but there may be more developmental time.
I think we learned a lesson this year - it's not purely about production it's about role/fit in the defense
Losing Nick Collins hurt, but the impact was much greater because it affected how Charles Woodson and the rest of the secondary could play. Losing Cullen Jenkins hurt, but the impact was much greater, as it exposed our lack of a pass rush from the OLB on that side and left Raji on an island against opposing O-Lines and not as free to penetrate and make plays. So not only did we lose their production, it had a major ripple effect on the rest of the team’s performance.
I think our priorities in the draft are clearly DE, ROLB, FS, LG, and possibly C based on what happens with Wells. But we definitely need an upgraded pass rush on the right side. Make it happen TT!
by rip_city_swagger on Jan 25, 2012 2:59 PM CST reply actions
totally agree except.. LG? I thought TJ Lang was pretty beast, although with Newhouse in, there were some struggles on that whole left side, I never really heard any complaints about Lang though.
by Tracker J Dunn on Jan 25, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
not specifically to replace Lang
we have a very aged Chad Clifton, and Marshall Newhouse at LT, and Lang at LG. Clifton likely only has another year or two at most. I don’t know if they are still considering moving Bulaga to LT at some point, I know it had been discussed in the past, but he seems like a good fit at RT.
I just think if a solid LT or LG came up in the middle rounds of the draft, and would be an upgrade, I would be into it.
But obviously that pass rush on the right side is where we need to devote some high draft picks IMO
by rip_city_swagger on Jan 25, 2012 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
LG?
What we need is a good backup OG, that can play both RG and LG. Certainly don’t need a replacement LG. Same at Center, tho EDS played fairly well at OG, his natural position is clearly Center in the NFL. I can’t see any reason why Bulaga would be moved to LT! Newhouse and Sherrod are going to be fine at LT and Clifton is good as done. They aren’t going to pay him 5M+ to be a backup LT, when they already have a highly drafted backup at OT.
On D we need a pass rush period, whether its R side, middle or L side matters little, as long as we get a better pass rusher!
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
I wouldn't mind Lang being relegated to the back-up interior role
If we can find a G in the 4th or 5th who can compete with Lang for the starting job, I’m all for that.
13.
"Skip, once again, stop it; Be an analyst; don't be a douchebag."
Don’t listen to the guys who say “it isn’t that bad”. Plainly, it IS. Recognize that and address it. Every member of a good defense must work in concert with each other. Last year they, at least, did that. This year we effectively had NO defensive line. It’s hard to do anything with no DL and not have it show up in all the other units. It’s pretty bad.
Francois
Anyone else out there think he did a better job in his brief snaps then Hawk?
Whoa there
Sure you’re not setting the bar too high?
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Jan 25, 2012 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
In coverage, yeah. But like you said, it was brief. I was more impressed with DJ Smith than I was with Francois. I wouldn’t mind seeing him start alongside Bishop at some point.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jan 25, 2012 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
Smith can actually tackle though, which is more important to me than being 2 inches taller.
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Jan 26, 2012 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
That’s overrated. He’s got a nose for the ball and that’s something you can’t teach.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jan 26, 2012 5:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
DJ Smith was good against the run. Francois was good against the pass, and he had some decent run stops too. I think given more snaps, either one of them could be an upgrade over Hawk.
Garage sales drive me insane. What is that? I don't know. One man's junk is another man's junk.
by TXPackerBacker on Jan 25, 2012 10:55 PM CST up reply actions
D-?
Bums?This D- Defense was 4 offensive/special teams turnovers away from playing in an NFC Championship, excluding the game 16 scrimmage-they allowed 18.8 pts/game (D pts allowed-D pts.scored) #6 NFL. D-line effectively dominated the Giants running game.Everyone knows now that the loss of Jenkins adversely effected the pass rush exponentially because it indirectly affected Clays #’s(double teams)I believe if Niners D played against those turnover ratios they would have been humiliated the same way—or worse. I TOTALLY put the loss on our Offense and defensive secondary-Turnovers, turnovers-4 less drives for us and 4 more drives for Eli—on a short field on at least 3? Letting receivers run 50 yards downfield without being touched inside 5 yards?? Im not a genius here but I blame Dom Capers for the same formula that burned us during the Arizona playoff game..3 man rush drop 8 prevent against a playoff caliber QB is the death to an organization.. dont blame the 3 men..blame the D coordinator
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Acme Packing Company
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
