The Future Of Matt Flynn And The Packers
by Brandon on Jan 3, 2012 8:00 AM CST
in Green Bay Packers Analysis
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When I was writing during the NFL lockout, I didn't expect Matt Flynn to return to the Green Bay Packers. He was set to become a free agent after the 2011 season, and last summer looked like the time to trade him. He had a very good game in December 2010 against the Patriots, and it seemed likely that some team would give him a chance to start. For whatever reason (the Packers wanted to retain a quality backup, or maybe there was no team willing to surrender a good draft pick) he returned this season.
Flynn nominated for Air NFL Player of the Week. Vince Verhei wrote for ESPN (insider subscription required) about Flynn's big game. Not only was it one of the best games of the year for any quarterback, and better than any performance by Aaron Rodgers, it was one of the best games over the past two decades. His conclusion was that mediocre quarterbacks never have games that good.
It would seem likely that they could use a franchise tag and then trade Flynn for a high draft pick. Or a good package of draft picks. Kevin Seifert pointed out the risks, and maybe the team will have to settle for a compensatory draft pick. But if any GM is adept at navigating the trade waters, it's Ted Thompson. He'll get as much for Flynn as he can get. There has been some talk about re-signing him as the backup, but that seems unrealistic.
Not every team is going to be in the market for a quarterback, but only one team will be able to draft Andrew Luck. There are still several teams that could really use an upgrade, and Flynn should be able to play in any system. They may prefer to trade him to the AFC, and that should be possible.
In the meantime, I'm sure he's focused on the task at hand: getting prepared for another Super Bowl run. And I'm glad the Packers have him.
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Wouldn't the franchise tag make him less tradeable?
Due to the astronomical salaries of QBs, I wonder if teams would be willing to trade for a backup QB (granted, quite a good one) if he’s due Brees/Brady/Manning money? I’m somewhat familiar with the franchise tag rules, but I could be way off base on this one. Would his salary carry over to the other team if the Pack tagged him?
Like my post? Well, follow me on Twitter anyways. @LenBarson
Pretty sure the Patriots tagged Cassel and found a trading partner that immediately signed him to a new deal. I don’t think a franchise tag makes him untradeable…its better to signing him to a deal. It does leave us without a tag for Finley though.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Finley is a ton more signable after a pretty mediocre season, IMO
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Jan 3, 2012 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
In theory sure…but that doesn’t mean HE still doesn’t think he deserves top 3 money.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
It doesn't matter what he thinks
What matters is what GMs think.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
by Wiedmann on Jan 3, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
im almost positive someone will sign him for that money tho
someone is going to fall in love with his potential
He only had 8 TD catches.
Yeah, he’s a match-up nightmare, but sometimes he has hands of stone. I think we will franchise him and put Matt out there. I can see a few teams that need a QB right now. Seattle comes to mind. Tavaris Jackson? Really?!?! Miami. Do they even use a quarterback down there? Matt could beat out Cassel in KC. Tony Romo would ride the pine in Dallas. Ted will talk to Matt about what he wants, compare that with what the team needs when the season ends(hopefully in Indy with another Lombardi Trophy coming back to Titletown!), and make a deal.
He had a better than decent season.
Look at his numbers:
Rec: 55
Yards : 767
TD: 8
Those are good numbers for a TE, although not what you want from someone who could be the best TE in the league. The drops are an issue, but some GM will pay him the money for his potential.
Seattle has Charlie Whitehurst, too
He’s their QB of the future…
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
Unfortunately, the Vikings are still considered a professional team...
thus always a threat to steal our players.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 3, 2012 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
The NFL....
at least because it keeps them around to committ conspiracies against.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 4, 2012 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
The new team would probably restructure his deal in a trade.
I saw last night they were predicting he’d get somewhere between what Matt Schaub got in Houston and what Kevin Kolb got in Arizona, so he’d be looking at 6 years and between 48 and 63 million, with probably two to three years guaranteed.
Packers' Magic Numbers:
Clinch Division = DONE!!!
Clinch 1st Rd Bye = DONE!!!
Clinch Homefield = DONE!!!
Franchise Tag a risky move..
a possible $14M cap hit? You better have a willing partner(s) if you plan on trying that
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
I'm thinking we should let him walk and take the compensatory pick
It’s probably what’s best for Flynn because he can choose the team he goes too. It’s better for the Packers because it continues to show the other players that Thompson will take care of his own.
Could a trade escalator be built in?
Sign him for 3 years @ 3M per year, but if he is traded that increases to 7.5M per year? I’m sure the agent would never go for it, but it might be interesting to think of a way where he’s cheap to be kept but gets his if he leaves.
off topic..
hearing Bears Jerry Angelo fired
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
As a Packer fan...
This is sad news :P
by mike_o on Jan 3, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Read that too...
Little curious how this might affect Lovie? Most GM’s will want to start w/ a new regime and the HC of their chosing. Not like he had a great record in his personnel moves, but he hit on some. Could this be house cleaning or is it just a facelift? I’m guessing its mostly just a facelift and they don’t overhaul the coaching staff and start over.
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
Probably right..
Lovie is under contract thru 2013 and the ownership is notoriously frugal. It may be the case though where they can’t attarct anyone good unless he can bring in his own coaching staff.
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
I'm going out on the limb with this but,
there is a very limited market for Flynn and the one team that I feel TT may be able to pull a Franchise Tag then trade or whatever deal would be with Denver.Elway needs to bring in a guy who can pocket pass and knows how to actually play QB and yet still needs to draft one for depth.I don’t think Elway will go crazy to get Luck,RG3 in the 1st but content to get Flynn and draft a guy later and perhaps shoot for a Barkley next year.
You don't understand football...
if you think there is a “limited market for Flynn”
Looking forward to the Packers three-peating and visiting President Ron Paul at the White House in 2013
A quick list of his potential market
Jets
Dolphins
Browns
Jaguars
Broncos
Redskins
Vikings
Bucs (maybe)
49ers
Seahawks
Rams
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
why not? Why settle for just okay when you could improve upon it, they would be an IDEAL team IMO, especially if they lose their first game and Smith is underwhelming. For the cost of a first, you get a QB ready to step in and lead a playoff ready squad.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
thats impractical.
Smith is a perfect qb for their system and has played quite solid this year. Flynn has played 2 good games, he is a much bigger gamble than Smith. 49ers are not in contention for a new QB.
Packers Season
Smith is a perfect qb for their system IF he plays how well he has this year.
I’m always skeptical when a player who has struggled as much as Smith has in the past to have this turnover-free of a season. We’ll see what happens next year.
But, just by his performance alone this year there is no way the 49ers would give up what the Packers would be asking for.
I already told you! I deal with the god damn receivers so the linebackers don’t have to! I have coverage skills; I’m good at covering people! Can’t you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!
They are holding their “system” back because its all he’s capable of. Are you telling me if they could have a great QB and explosive offense, they would turn it down because it wasn’t part of their system? Their system is what it is because they don’t have a QB who can do anything more.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
I disagree
I believe that Flynn can succeed if put in the right system. That system would be one that spreads the field with multiple receivers and relies on its passing game to win. It’s the only system Flynn has played and succeeded in. I’m not so sure if Flynn would be as successful in SF, which is a run heavy offense. He could prove me wrong, but it’s just a hunch I have. I think Seattle would be a better fit as it would build its offense around Flynn with multiple receiver options (Williams, Rice, Tate, etc). Flynn would have big targets in the passing game in Seattle with several targets. That makes Seattle the ideal team in my opinion.
One game at a time...
Vernon Davis, Crabtree, Morgan, Gore out of the backfield…they have some weapons there and could make a move for a FA too if needed. Seattle would probably be a better fit though, you are right there. Plus Seattle always has their eye on our castoffs.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
because th 49ers had a great season
and they aren’t going to risk chemistry or what they have started by going with a different QB now
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Jan 4, 2012 4:35 AM CST up reply actions
Take off
The Bucs, Vikings, 49ers, and Rams at the least. Freeman is what the Bucs, and the same goes for Bradford and the Rams. The 49ers have Capernick and are looking to resign Smith. The Vikings are reportedly good with Ponder for next season, and it is a bit early to give up on the 12th pick in the draft. That’s the same reason why the Jags will almost assuredly not look at Flynn, as Gabbert will be given some more time first.
And I would be surprised if the Broncos or Jets made a play for him. Sanchez will have at least one more year because of Rex, and Tebow has bought himself the right to start next season.
The most likely teams are the Browns or Redskins IMO.
I think Sanchez may have run out of chances to prove himself.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
Yup
But the Jets’ management (ie, Woody Johnson, who was born on 3rd base and thinks he hit a triple) isn’t going to acknowledge it before the end of next season. And Ryan’s ego is so inflated that he’s convinced he can make Sanchez a championship QB. Tannenbaum is too weak to force the right decision. More of the same for this hapless franchise.
I think the Vikes should give Webb a legitimate shot
he’s looked good every time he’s gotten playing time
football does not build character, it reveals character.
Rams do not need Matt Flynn, nor do the Bucs
football does not build character, it reveals character.
If that's what they think, they're deluded.
Bradford and Freeman are not taking those teams anywhere but down.
Flynn would be a huge improvement on either of them.
based on two games against horrible secondaries.
not knocking Flynn here, but Bradford and Freeman have both had extended stretches of success as well, neither have good receivers to throw the ball to, and in Bradford’s case he has an O-line that might as well just not even be there.
football does not build character, it reveals character.
basically, what I'm saying is that those two teams have far more pressing issues to address this offseason than their quarterback.
football does not build character, it reveals character.
dont see Jets, 49ers or Rams
and doubtful for the Bucs.
but teh Jags a Fins could really benefit. Vikings could be a place, and it seems that many times a quality backup becomes a FA and is picked up by a division foe
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Jan 4, 2012 4:38 AM CST up reply actions
it seems that many times a quality backup becomes a FA and is picked up by a division foe
In the Viking’s case, it doesn’t even need to be a quality backup. The fact that the player has worn Green & Gold at any time qualifies them to start for the Vikings.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 4, 2012 8:01 PM CST up reply actions
No brainer
QBs are in huge demand … We could easily fran tag him, get a deal done for 1st or 2nd rounder. Can’t believe this is even a debate. With FA, he may not play enough/get injured and not qualify for higher pick.
We’ll do with him what we did with corey wiliams. Certainly not deserving top 5 money for a Def Tackle. But we tagged him and then traded him to Cleveland for a 2nd rounder, as I recall.
Only QBs are in much higher demand, so a first rounder is a no-brainer for Flynn.
I said it during the game thread, he’ll be tagged. Thompson is rational.
In McCarthy we trust; In Thompson, we worship.
Looking forward to the Packers three-peating and visiting President Ron Paul at the White House in 2013
I'd agree it's a no-brainer
if Finley wasn’t in the picture, also as a franchise tag recipient. But given the situation (if we let Flynn walk we’ll still get a 4th or 5th rounder, and tagging Finley will lock him up below market rate for the year if he’s not willing to sign a longer deal) it may be just as prudent to let him walk, unfortunately.
by Archibaldcrane on Jan 3, 2012 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
The franchise tag wouldn’t really be below market rate for Finley.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
by TrevorR on Jan 3, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
True, 5.9M would only be slightly behind what Vernon Davis makes per year
VD makes 7.4M a year.
by Archibaldcrane on Jan 3, 2012 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
For anyone questioning the demand/market for Flynn
From the Journal Sentinel today: “One prominent agent who has represented a franchise player said that he thinks the Packers could get a first-round pick at the minimum for Flynn and maybe first- and third-round picks. He said the desire for a franchise quarterback is so great that teams would be willing to pay a lot to obtain a polished product like Flynn.”
All we gotta do is work out a deal with his agent and a team before we F-Tag him. Cake.
Get ready for two first rounders next year, girls.
Looking forward to the Packers three-peating and visiting President Ron Paul at the White House in 2013
I'm not so sure the deamnd is that high either, but I'm no GM..
who might be interested? In no particular order..
Colts?
Rams?
Seahawks?
Jags?
Titans?
Browns?
Bills?
Miami?
Jets?
Off the top of my head, there would be reason to believe any of these teams would be interested. There are reasons for most of these to not want to part with the draft picks. Is there anyone I’m missing?
Holmgren to me would be the best match. He needs a QB and has extra picks from the Atlanta trade.
Keep in mind a couple of these may also just want to draft Luck or RG3
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
Holmgren needs those picks to build something that actually resembles an NFL offense.
You’re not going anywhere with just Colt McCoy and Joe Thomas.
Doesn't he have a bunch of extra picks still this year from the Julio Jones trade?
Or was that for picks last year only?
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 3, 2012 8:55 PM CST up reply actions
I'd forgotten the ridiculous volume of picks they've given up.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
The Falcons went from 13-3, and the #1 seed before Julio
to 10-6, 2nd in their division and the #5 seed with him.
And now, going forward from that, they don’t have their 1st or 4th round picks this year.
Good trade, Mr. Dimitroff. :)
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"We're nobody's underdog!"
"We don't play scared!"
After further review,
the Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Wait to see
How Julio pans out, and what Cleveland does with those picks before you grade the trade. Julio has had a very good rookie season, and should only get better. That trade is not as one sided as you believe.
The Kolb trade was though. Reid fleeced the Cardinals bad.
It doesn't matter what Cleveland does with the picks
If Cincinnati’s picks they got for Carson Palmer never play a down for the Bengals (which is possible, I mean, Mike Brown has been known to screw up draft picks), that doesn’t suddenly make the Palmer trade a wise move for Oakland.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
What if
Palmer goes on to 3 pro bowls, and helps them win a Super Bowl? Would it have been a wise move then? Because that team does have the talent and pieces to make a post season run. Not saying that it will happen, and I’m not saying they didn’t pay to much, but wait and see before you grade.
I suppose.
but, that’s about as likely as Flynn re-signing for 600,000 a year.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
Didn't you just say wait to judge the trade?
but then you turn around and judge the Kolb trade after one year? Sorry, but thats dumb. The Kolb trade is FAR from being as one sided as you think! DRC basically got benched and played poorly this year, just like he did last year in AZ. So your left w/ Kolb for a 2nd and a backup player. And Kolb walked into a difficult situation, where he had to learn a Completely different offense w/ no offseason and he to play a very difficult schedule the 1st 6-8 wks of the season! The Kolb trade is far from being one-sided, much less being able to grade from one side or the other!
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
by Strohman on Jan 4, 2012 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Aye...
not to mention he was banged up all year behind a subpar offensive line.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 4, 2012 8:03 PM CST up reply actions
Not only that, but,
anyone who has read my comments in the past knows that I believe that it is extremely rare for a WR to reach their potential before their third or fourth season, and I don’t believe they return the instant gratification expected of a first round pick (even without giving away picks to trade up to get them).
The implied one-year judgement of Jones in my comment was tongue-in-cheek, but Shoes31 didn’t get it.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"We're nobody's underdog!"
"We don't play scared!"
After further review,
the Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Just saying
AFCE-NE-Brady,BUF-Fitz,JETS-Sanchize,Mia-Moore and draft
AFCW-SD-Rivers,OAK-$Palmer,KC-Cassel but poss?,Den-Yes
AFCN-Bal-Flacco,Cin-Dalton,Pitt-Ben,Cle-McC-draft-poss?
AFCS-Ind-Luck,Hou-Schabb,Ten-Locker,Jac-Yes
NFCN-no way TT deals with Min,Cutler,Stafford
NFCS-NO-Brees,Atl-Ryan,Car-Cam,TB-Freeman
NFCE-Gia-Eli,Dal-Romo,Phi-Vick,Was-draft-Luck,RG3 but poss?
NFCW-SF-Smith,STL-Bradford,Ari-$Kolb-Skelton-iffy,Sea-yes or they go for a draft or he waits for Barkley next year.
I am guessing you are trying to defend your post above from 8:30 am but
This is all very confusing and you have about 5 teams that you are saying that would rather draft a QB than deal with us? Is that the correct understanding?
If so, I have a hard time believing that a team would rather draft an unproven QB and wait for him to develop than submit a package of picks for a guy who has already been trained under one of the best QBs in football and has already proved his quality.
For instance, I doubt that Cleveland with Colt McCoy, a guy they drafted 2 years ago who has not been very good yet, will want to draft another Colt McCoy this year. A trade would be much more appealing. Also, a couple of the teams a la Oakland and Buffalo do have veteran Quarterbacks, though the fans and organizations have lost a lot of faith. I believe that Buffalo can already opt out of the deal with Fitzpatrick if they wanted to as well.
There are a LOT of teams who want a good quarterback.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Jan 3, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
I would say everyone wants a good quarterback..
but how many are willing to part with a #1 and #3 pick as has been suggested and pay the franchise freight for a guy that has made exactly 2 NFL starts?
Flynn has possibly the best wide reciever corps surrounding him and possibly the best coach in the NFC. I’m not saying he’s not a good QB, just saying those facts weigh in to his performance. He surely doesn’t perform nearly as well say on Chicago with a Martz system and that God awful receiving corps just as an example.
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
How can you still doubt Matt after what you saw on Sunday?
Sure, he’s on a great team but he still had to make all those throws.
Not saying he wont be good
It’s just an awfully small sample size. People thought Kolb was going to be great..you just don’t know. Obviously GM’s weren’t all that impressed when Flynn came out of college.
Just saying Flynn in all likelyhood wont be as good right away under a new system and teammates..
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
Kolb
He walked into a difficult situation. He had NO Offseason to learn the offense, had to learn a completely new offense and then in the 1st 6 games of the year had to play an extremely difficult situation. His career has not been written yet. When Skelton came in for Kolb he got to face a much easier schedule and knew the offense from having been in it for a full year. IMO, Kolb looked much like Rodgers did his first year as a starter. Held the ball too long, had some indicision at times and needs nothing but experience to get settled in. You can’t judge him or that trade based on one year w/ no offseason…
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
right..
and Flynn could walk into a same type of situation. As much as you can’t judge Kolb on 1 season with all circumstances against him, you can’t say Flynn is the next Joe Montana based on 2 games with all circumstances for him.
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
Not the same situation.
Flynn will have an offseason to learn the offense.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"We're nobody's underdog!"
"We don't play scared!"
After further review,
the Munsters of the Midway still suck!
I didn't say a thing about Flynn...
His situation is far from being determined. He could go where he has a very similar system or very different AND he gets a full offseason to learn the offense before he will take the field.
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
When is it EVER going to be a large sample size? Heck teams have given up a lot for guys with NO sample size before (ala Hasselbeck, Whitehurst, etc). Having two full starts with great numbers against playoff teams is a nice sample…no guarantee but in this league, that is better than normal.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Answer me this…
You have a first round pick. YOu have a few potential QBs in the draft that did some nice stuff in college. You have a guy who just lit up a playoff team while playing behind an injured line and missing the WR1 who is available for that same pick. Why in the WORLD would you choose an unproven like RG3. YOu lose maybe 3-4 years (age diff) but those years would be spent developing. Flynn is ready to step in now and lead a team. Why wouldn’t you want to talk to the Packers???
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
I'm sure teams will talk
But look, it’s kind of like when a team knows you are going to cut a guy if you can’t trade him. Teams might take the risk that they could sign the guy in free agency rather than pay a king’s ransom in draft picks. Some of these teams just invested a high draft pick in a QB, and need to use the picks for other areas of need.
I’m not saying it can’t or won’t happen, just not that its a lay up as has been suggested.
Matt Cassel had a much larger body of work when that deal went down. We’ll see.
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
I would take Luck over Flynn in a heartbeat
nobody else in the draft though
football does not build character, it reveals character.
Cost.
You can develop your own guy for a lot cheaper now, and not have to tie up 50-60mil plus draft picks for a guy who may not work in another system.
The GB offense/coaches probably make Flynn look a little better than he is, and if you don’t have the support around him, you might as well start over fresh at QB.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 3, 2012 8:58 PM CST up reply actions
someone should go ask the Seattle site
what they would be willing to give up for Matt Flynn. i’d be interested to see
the Colts, Rams, Bills, and Titans would all not be interested
everyone else on there, yes
football does not build character, it reveals character.
And with both Luck and RG3 available in the draft
I would cross Miami off that list as well for that reason.
I am also inclined to cross Jacksonville off since they just got Gabbert and, while underwhelming, is their QBOTF for now. Ditto for the Browns and McCoy.
And I am not sold on the Jets wanting to replace the Sanchize, at least this upcoming year.
So from the original list that leaves just Seattle, who just went 7-9 with T-Jack not playing a full season. I’m not seeing them really doing a 180 on that either.
Everyone has a QB they are hoping it will work out with. I could make that argument for every single team in the league.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Well, that's kind of the point
Everyone in this league is falling into one of the following categories:
1. Has a franchise QB or is at least successful with their current one (NYG, DAL, PHL, GB, CHI, MIN, DET, NO, CAR, ATL, SF, NE, PIT, BAL, HOU, SD)
2. Recently drafted their “franchise QB” in the last two years (TB, STL, ARI, CIN, CLE, JAX, TEN)
3. Recently signed or extended the contract to their “franchise QB” in the last two years (SEA, ARI, BUF, NYJ, HOU, KC)
4. Are in the Luck/RG3 market (MIA, IND)
5. Don’t have any resources to sign a billionth QB (OAK)
6. Would be crucified by the general public for benching Tebow (DEN)
Of that list it leaves WAS as the only suitor that is stuck looking for a franchise QB. Last season was the year for “obtaining franchise QBs via Free Agency” as you had CIN, MIN, JAX, and TEN that were all looking for someone.
You're right
Let me just use that handy-dandy edit function…
That's hardly a nit-pick
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
by Wiedmann on Jan 3, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously!!
That is a massive oopsie! haha
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
So your point is that no one would ever trade for a QB then…great point.
The Chiefs had one when they went after Cassel, the Seahawks had one when they signed Jackson, etc. Just cause they have a guy they are hoping for doesn’t mean they aren’t going to make a move to improve or bring in a guy that can improve them now.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Im not sure on McCoy
He is a 3rd round pick after all. Putting him on the bench to develop will not be a financial hardship, and cutting a 3rd round pick after 2 years is hardly uncommon. Don’t be surprised if they make a play for Flynn, as he fits what they want to do with their offense perfectly (modified WCO).
by Shoes31 on Jan 3, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
McCoy was selected by Holmgren as the QBOTF
And this is his first full season which included time out due to injury. I really doubt he gets thrown to the curb after that, especially since a large part of Cleveland’s issues has been instability at QB.
I get that everyone on a Packers board is high on Flynn, but I also doubt that most teams that are well run are dropping their projects to run to the shiny object. The issue is the price, really. That’s why I think Washington would be the leading candidate, since Chainsaw Dan has a grove of million dollar trees at his mansion.
Flynn vs draft pick
You are a GM. You have a first round pick and no QB. Do you:
a) Draft a QB from a college with limited QB history with respect to successful transition to the NFL (Baylor),
b) trade up and your 2nd and first for 2013 for a QB that could be the Leaf of the future, or could be serviceable, or could be the QB of the future (several options).
c) Trade your first round pick to a franchise that in the last 22 years has developed: Favre, Rodgers, Brunell, Pederson, Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, Ty Detmer…and now Flynn.
Thoughts?
Pederson and Detmer
Career backups are not much to brag about, but I see your point.
Like my post? Well, follow me on Twitter anyways. @LenBarson
TJack or Tebow
Or Detmer or Pederson? I’d rather have a serviceable pocket passer than those two. I’m not ranking these qb’s, but who else has done what the Packers have done at QB in the past 22 years? Even Warner was briefly in their system…it’s like in college, you get Speed from the SEC/ACC, linemen from the Big Ten, and QB’s from pro-style offenses…
in the pros, I’d trade for backup linebackers from Pittsburgh or the Ravens, and QB’s from the Packers.
Thanks for responding :)
OK fair point about the LBs
But I’m confused as to the point you’re making with comparing Detmer and Pederson to TJack and Tebow.
Oh and is your screen name a reference to Musashi the kickboxer by any chance?
Like my post? Well, follow me on Twitter anyways. @LenBarson
No the samurai from Japan
I’m saying I’d rather have a serviceable QB that can pass from the Pocket than either TJack or Tebow, both of whom cannot :)
you're an idiot if you think there's any chance that Luck falls into the Leaf/Russell category
there’s a reason those two were unsuccessful: They were morons and had little/no study habits or work ethic. These things were considered major question marks about them before the draft as well.
Everything about Andrew Luck points in the opposite direction of those flaws. I mean, the guy just got an engineering degree from Stanford, I don’t think he’s gonna have any problems learning and adapting at the next level, and I’m sure he knows all about studying and working hard.
football does not build character, it reveals character.
There's always a can't-miss prospect who misses
I’m not saying he will bust, or even that it’s likely, but it is possible.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
I sincerely doubt it in his case, he looks like an NFL QB playing in college with the way he runs the offense at the line of scrimmage
but I suppose it’s always possible, but there’s no way, IMO, that he turns out as badly as Leaf or Russell. Time will tell.
football does not build character, it reveals character.
I don't think anyone could implode like Leaf or Russell
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
Ha
And I’d say you’re an idiot for assuming in any way shape or form that Luck is guaranteed to be the next Manning. There are more busts than superstars in the NFL including QB. And if he were going to build a bridge or power plant the engineering degree would be helpful. But to evade 325lb linemen and make the correct decisions on the field he’s not any more likely than any other QB until he actually proves himself. After all, Brett Favre is dumb as a brick but was a pretty good QB.
I never said he'd be the next Manning, but he's also not gonna be what Leaf was
football does not build character, it reveals character.
Luck has thrown at least one interception in each of his last 6 games
He’ll probably be pretty good, but that’s pretty bad.
by Archibaldcrane on Jan 3, 2012 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
Here's my list of potential suitors
Seattle: T-Jack is not their QB of the future.
Rams: Possible, but not likely as Bradford’s gigantic contract makes him hard to move.
49ers: Again, possible but not likely. Smith has played well enough to make QB not a pressing need. SF also drafted a QB in the 2nd RD last draft.
Cardinals: Extremely unlikely due to acquiring Kolb last summer. But as of now, John Skelton is the most impressive QB on the roster, which says a ton.
Vikings: Packers are not likely to trade Flynn in the division. Also, MN took their “franchise QB” in Ponder (Ha!) #12 overall last year.
Dolphins: Definite possibility. Miami went after Kyle Orton pretty hard last offseason and only a complete moron would prefer Orton to Flynn at this point.
Cleveland: This is where Flynn will land. Colt McCoy is not the answer and the Browns have an abundance of high draft picks. If they don’t get Luck or RG3 I bet Holmgren will pull the trigger on Flynn.
Jags/Titans: Both teams took QBs early in the first round in last years draft. They’re out of the running.
Jets: Sanchez sucks but I don’t see the Jets giving up on him quite yet.
Bills: Just signed Fitzpatrick to a long term deal, so Flynn isn’t going to Buffalo
Let me know where I went wrong.
Like my post? Well, follow me on Twitter anyways. @LenBarson
It will be
a mid first rounder team…the top teams will take Luck and RG the third. If I was the pack and got a 2nd first rounder, I would not push too much on wanting a 2nd/3rd rounders as well, from the standpoint that the pack needs to draft 2 DT/DE’s, 2 OL’s, and a Safety. There is some depth out there in all of these roles this year I think.
Yep.
If the Pack are offered a 1st rounder, I say take it and run. Obviously shoot for more but I wouldn’t press it too much. I would be thrilled if the Packers get to spend 2 first rounders on the pass rush.
Since they don’t have too many holes to fill, they can afford to trade up and really go after someone they want, akin to when TT traded back into the first round for the Claymaker. And I also agree that they should spend almost every pick on defense unless a pretty spectacular value falls into their laps.
Like my post? Well, follow me on Twitter anyways. @LenBarson
They really can't do that this year unless they get a 1st for Flynn
We were able to do so with Clay due to drafting 9th (and 41st in the 2nd round), and even then, it cost us a 2nd (41) & two 3rds (73 & 83) for 26th overall & a 5th. Moving up from 64th to the end of the 1st would be even more costly. But, if we’re able to tag & trade Flynn for a 1st, I don’t see why we would trade up. Washington’s got the 6th pick (I could even see us trading down with this), Miami is in the 8/9 slot, Sea is 11/12, NYJ are 16, and Cleveland has the 4th & somewhere in the 20s (they have the Falcons 1st rounder).
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
Orton is thought highly of by a lot of people...
I’m not sure “only a moron” would prefer Orton to Flynn..especially at franchise tag money
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
Definitely agree about Cleveland
It really doesn’t seem like anybody in the organization is all that attached to McCoy, so like you said they’ll look to one of the top QBs in the draft, but if they don’t land one they’re looking at Flynn. A couple of other points that make that likely:
1. Both teams run a version of the West Coast offense, which should mean a fairly easy transition for both Flynn and the team (it also plays to Flynn’s strengths).
2. Holmgren and Ted worked together in Seattle, which I would think would lead to them getting to the bottom line price pretty quickly (I think familiarity between front office execs is an often understated part of the trading process).
Straight-up trade for Joe Thomas?
Quick, someone call Holmgren!
by osc630 on Jan 3, 2012 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I wishhhhhh
football does not build character, it reveals character.
Like I said
as much as some convince themselves the market for Flynn is vast,it really isn’t.There are many scenarios and possiblities that can be envisioned to justify its scope but take away the magnifying glasses and it really looks smaller and less opportunistic.
Good call.
I forgot about the Skins. They need a QB as bad as anybody in the league.
Like my post? Well, follow me on Twitter anyways. @LenBarson
I'm shutting down this thread...
1) for those who don’t think there is no market for QBs…two words, Carson Palmer. Palmer is 32, coming off major surgery, a 2 year “retitrement” and they gave up a 1st and 2nd for him
2) There is no need for a 2nd point!
Guys, the number one thing teams want is a QB…there are about 10 teams that could use/start a Flynn. We are getting at least a first rounder for him. It’s inevitable…
After trading Flynn (and including our own picks) we will have 2 first rounders, maybe 2 nd rounders and about five combined 3rd and fourth rounders (because of compensatory picks)
Nine picks out of the top 120 players — that’s sick.
In other words, the rich get richer and we are just building up a Dynasty not seen since the Han civilization. Or maybe the Hapsburgs.
Rec me
Looking forward to the Packers three-peating and visiting President Ron Paul at the White House in 2013
by PackFaninFL on Jan 3, 2012 1:42 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
One more thing,
I asked you before to list the teams that would easlity throw those picks our way and now you say there are 10 teams who would use/start Flynn,please list them and also while your at it…rec me!!
by Tarynfor12 on Jan 3, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
10
10. Seattle
9. Washington
8. Kansas City (Orton is a rental)
7. Arizona
6. Miami
5. Texans (Yes, you heard me.)
4. Minnesota (I live here, all I hear is take a qb, take a qb)
3. Chicago (cutler is a walking injury)
2. Indianapolis (they trade down for a couple firsts 2012/13 and then trade for flynn)
1. Oakland
Categorize Them This Way
Desperation: Washington, maybe Indy
Close to It: Seattle, Cleveland, Tenn
Looking to Improve Their Hands: KC, AZ, Miami, Oak, Denver (if fans will let them)
Jury’s Out On Incumbent: Minn, Jax
Would Be Smart to Cut Their Losses (But Won’t): NYJ, Chicago
Take out Indy
For starters, they are getting Luck w/o question… ONly a fool wouldn’t take him there.
Tenn just drafted Locker pretty high in the 1st, so they’re out too.
KC Might be interested, but my guess is they stick w/ Cassell and Orton for another year. AZ will not be in the market for a QB, they like both Kolb and Skelton and will get them both next year to figure it out. Miami is possible and so is Denver (tho Den is extremely unlikely IMO)
Minn and Jax are gonna go w/ the high draft picks for at LEAST another year. NYJ and Chicago aren’t looking either. Leaves 3 good possibilities… Wash, Seattle, Cleveland and all are strong possibilities!
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
Chicago, Houston, Indy, and Oakland
all have zero chance of being Flynn’s landing place. Literally, zero chance.
and how is Cutler a walking injury? This is the first time he’s missed multiple games in his career. would you call Tom Brady a walking injury because he suffered a freak knee injury in 2008? Or Drew Brees because he tore his rotator cuff in 2005?
football does not build character, it reveals character.
Calm down compadre
First of all, there is not a “zero” chance. Literally, there is not. Probability suggests it may not happen, but until it does not happen, there is a chance, given the fact that Cutler was injured last year, he was injured this year…that is a walking injury waiting to happen when you miss games because of them. Playoffs last year. Games this year.
So, Chicago may look at Flynn, although the probability is that the Pack would not send him there or to MN. I answered the question "and now you say there are 10 teams who would use/start Flynn,please list them " and I responded with my thoughts. The question was not “what are the ten MOST PROBABLE places for him to go”, but I listed 10 teams in need of a QB. Houston I put on the list b/c Schaub suffered a nasty foot break, and those can be difficult to recover from due to the heavy punishment QB’s can take (plus, one misstep from a lineman and “snap” goes the foot…). These are not out of the realm.
Regardless, calling people idiots and so forth is the type of fan banter I see in Minneapolis for the Vikings posts…let’s keep it out of the Green Bay posts buddy.
before this season Cutler had missed one start in four full years of starting (concussion)
he suffered a freak injury while making a tackle. This is not a guy for whom durability is a concern, especially when considering the beating he’s taken the last three years behind a swiss cheese O-line.
You listed ten teams in need of a QB?
neither Chicago, nor Houston, is in need of a QB for next season. Oakland has far too much money committed to Carson Palmer to bring in another QB, and Indy has the first overall draft pick in a draft that contains a QB who’s at worst equally likely to be a franchise guy as Matt Flynn is.
football does not build character, it reveals character.
I remember, once upon a time,
when it was thought there was a zero chance Reggie White would land in Green Bay.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"We're nobody's underdog!"
"We don't play scared!"
After further review,
the Munsters of the Midway still suck!
I'll say this..
I love your optimism!
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
I'm with you on this actually
Kolb hadn’t been nearly as impressive as Flynn, and Philly got a very good starting corner (DRC) and a second round pick for him. There’s no way somebody isn’t willing to give up roughly equivalent value, at least, for Flynn.
football does not build character, it reveals character.
Last year there were more teams looking for QBs than this year
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
mehh, I think there's always a significant number of teams looking to upgrade at QB
but I see your point
football does not build character, it reveals character.
Yeah, that's true
but I think there wouldn’t be as much competition, therefore, not as high of a price.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
Maybe not 10
But I don’t think 5-7 teams looking at Flynn is unreasonable.
Like my post? Well, follow me on Twitter anyways. @LenBarson
The Carson Palmer trade is a great point.
Never underestimate how much teams will give up for a potential franchise QB. Flynn is a hot commodity right now. Thompson is one of, if not THE best GM in the NFL. He will fleece some poor sucker for a kings ransom, mark my words.
Like my post? Well, follow me on Twitter anyways. @LenBarson
I'll put 1 Turkish Lira on it..:)
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
Palmer was not traded to be a franchise QB
He was traded to win Oakland a SB this year until Campbell came back next year. Oakland is also a ginormous exception to the rule.
I don't know about that
They mortgaged their future for one season? Hue Jackson didn’t call it “the greatest trade in NFL history” because he’s a one year rental.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
by Wiedmann on Jan 3, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, that's why it was roundly called a stupid trade
Everything I read pointed it to being a “This season or bust” trade:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/33980/trade-shows-raiders-aggression
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/33996/no-mystery-on-who-is-running-raiders
Furthermore, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Oakland try to developer Pryor before signing/trading for another QB.
ESPN is not the Raiders
They can speculate all they want, but that doesn’t make it true. Just because it was a “win-now” move doesn’t mean he’s not in their future plans, and regardless of how long they keep him, it was a stupid trade.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
by Wiedmann on Jan 3, 2012 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Timeless Wisdom
Never count on Oakland to make a rational decision. Al Davis inserted this permanently into Black-and-Silver DNA. Palmer is an old 32 and on the downside; to call Campbell a journeyman is to over-praise him; Pryor is too far away for a franchise suffering from ADHD playing in a division with only one quality QB. Don’t count them out; they’ve done stranger things.
In which parallel universe did they have a chance of winning the Super Bowl this year?
You gotta be kidding.
In early October they were the front runners to win the AFC West
And no, no reasonable fan outside of Oakland really thought it was “their year.” But they thought so.
I like Flynn alot and even said he would shine before the game
but he would have been better served if he got to play more last year.As IMO,Ari,Sea,SF may have vied for him.
in that division? With that defense? And that coach? No chance.
they’re gonna be a contender for a good while
football does not build character, it reveals character.
That's what everyone was saying about the Rams this time last year
There’s one thing I know about the NFL, and it’s that nothing is a given.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
true, but the Rams last year were also nowhere near as good as the Niners are this year
football does not build character, it reveals character.
Are the Niners really all that good this year?
They lost to the Cowboys & Cardinals. They beat the Eagles by 1 & the Seahawks by 2.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
yeah I don't think they're as good as their record either
they remind me of last year’s Falcons in that it was kind of fluky and lucky for them to put up the record they did. I think they’ll be one and done, whether it’s the Saints they play or not. But I also think that they’re a solid 10ish win team, and that they’re very young at most positions and likely only getting better the next couple years. time will tell.
football does not build character, it reveals character.
Flynn to the Ravens
and they dominate the AFC for awhile. Flacco isn’t much better than Game Manager IMHO.
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
It would be really smart, I think he could be great there
Doubt it happens, though.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
I hope he goes to Miami
Symphony X is the best band that ever was.
by TGPackersTwins19 on Jan 3, 2012 8:05 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Sundays game on NFL replay now..
I love NFL network
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
by White92 on Jan 3, 2012 8:46 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Am I the only one that thinks all of this Flynn hype has gone way overboard?
Honestly, he’s played 2 games. That is such a small sample size to analyze from. It reminds me a lot of the Kevin Kolb situation, and that hasn’t turned out too well for Arizona so far.
Packers Season
by OznCoop on Jan 3, 2012 11:36 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
When did Kolb throw for 480 yards and 6 touchdowns?
When?
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"We're nobody's underdog!"
"We don't play scared!"
After further review,
the Munsters of the Midway still suck!
2010
All of it.
13.
Build Lasers And Stuff For More Ownage, Dude!
by Wiedmann on Jan 4, 2012 2:38 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I tend to agree..
Matt Cassel had played nearly a full season when NE did the tag and trade..I really hope TT gets a 1st and a 3rd for him, but I kind of doubt it.
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
The thing is though
he’s started two more NFL games than every QB in the draft. There will be good QBs in the draft, and there will be a Blaine Gabbert and Brian Brohm, if not a Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell there too. And the picks used to take those players could’ve been used to grab, this offseason, a Matt Flynn – who at the least is able to demonstrate flashes of absolute, one-of-the-top-15-QB-performances-in-the-past-20-years brilliance.
Matt Flynn, at this point, assuming he’s willing to negotiate a fair contract to get out of his franchise tag, is worth at least a 2nd round draft pick for a QB-needy team.
by Archibaldcrane on Jan 4, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly.
Two more games AND two more NFL franchise records than any one else in the draft.
Overhyped? Probably, but setting franchise records in your second start is awfully impressive. Flynn just seems like a safer bet than a college quarterback for a team who needs a QB ASAP because he’s been tested at the professional level.
Review Flynn's career
Backed up JaMarcus FatAss, then led Lousiana to the Natinoal Championship when he started. Slid down to 7th. Mike McCarthy QB school. Step in against New England, with a injury depleted squad, and played Brady to the last minute. Faced a very determined Lions team playing for something with backups, and set records. That is not a fluke. That is real performance over many years. He’s worth a 1st.
Maybe...
but I hope it continues all over until the Packers milk every last thing they can out of it for their organization!
Am I the only one that thinks all of this Flynn hype has gone way overboard?
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jan 4, 2012 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Just for comparison..
Matt Cassel was traded with Mike Vrabel to KC and only brought a 2nd round pick. Cassel had NE to an 11-5 record
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
not sure the relevance there..
Vince Young won one and Tim Tebow two…Cassel probably better than those two also
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
by White92 on Jan 4, 2012 9:41 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions 3 recs
Not that I want this to happen...
but I wonder if TT has taken any prank calls inquiring about the availability of Aaron Rodgers following the playoffs.
Seriously, I think TT will sign, then trade Flynn. Several previous posters have alluded to this. TT won’t let Flynn go to Minny or Chicago. That, by itself, is sufficient reason to sign Flynn, then trade for some draft picks or a 3-4 DE/OLB to improve the pass rush. Someone mentioned Joe Thomas. That would work, too!
Oh to dream
For Joe Thomas and a good pick? Joe would be ideal for Green Bay, although I question how many years he has left.
Franchise tag on Finley?
Finley isn’t worth it – let him go. Flynn needs to start somewhere. If you think carefully, the Colts would be perfect. Set up for his style of play, a dome, a legacy. He would put the Colts in the playoffs next year, something no rookie, not even Luck, is gonna pull off. Flynn is now the hottest QB in the draft, because that’s how these teams will think.
Whoa whoa whoa, buddy
First of all, Finley is completely worth it. He opens up the offense, regardless of his untimely drops. Second, the Colts would never do it. They’re currently in a complete roster overhaul, and will NOT give up any first round picks for Matt Flynn, who is still a bit of a risk as a quarterback. Third, Flynn is in no way guaranteed to put the Colts in the playoffs next year, even if they did sign him. And fourth, I doubt Flynn is anywhere near the prospect that Luck is; Give me any scout, any GM, any coach in the league, and EVERY one of them would take Luck over Flynn. That’s not a diss on Flynn, that’s a compliment to Luck, and all the attributes he possesses that are so rare in young quarterbacks these days.
15-1
Back on track to Super Bowl XLVI!
MattFlynn4StartingQB
by arodgb on Jan 4, 2012 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
It's nice to know
that your backup QB is better than 25-ish starting QBs in the NFL
Symphony X is the best band that ever was.
DanielHeiman4Kamelot!!! (or bring back Roy Khan)
by TGPackersTwins19 on Jan 4, 2012 8:37 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Flynn's already been a champion
The so-called backup most keep calling Matt Flynn overlook his past—led LSU to an UNDEFEATED NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP in his only season as a starter—Flynn didn’t just pick up this talent while in Packerland, he was already a qualified champion. He was a hard worker, watched films and studied even as a backup at LSU before he got his opportunity to shine, he’s done the same thing in Green Bay—two starts, 9 TD’s against 2 INT’s in his only two starts with a bright future ahead. And his success in LSU did not include 4 receiver sets or WR’s with the talents of Jordy Nelson, DDriver, JJones or JMike Finley. Unlike Brian Brohm who never panned out, Packers lose Flynn and they lose a potential starter with more talent than Matt Hasselback had when GB traded him to the Seahawks with Favre as the starter.
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