Packers 2012 Free Agents: Jarrett Bush
by Brandon on Feb 3, 2012 11:00 AM CST
in Green Bay Packers Free Agency
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The Green Bay Packers usually make the right move with their personnel and coaching decisions, but there have been a few that defy explanation. First, Ted Thompson's love of signing middling linebackers to multi-year contracts (A.J. Hawk, Brady Poppinga, Brandon Chillar). Second, the retention of special teams coach Shawn Slocum in the face of disastrous seasons in 2009 and 2010 (to his credit, the special teams were pretty good in 2011). Third, that CB Jarrett Bush has received substantial playing time over the past six seasons.
Just as Dr. Strangelove learned to love the bomb, I've come to accept that he'll always have a place on the Packers roster. Does he deserve it? Isn't there anyone better? These are irrelevant questions. The Packers want him out there.
The only question is whether they'll be able to. Despite their infatuation with him, they haven't been eager to start him. They've been content to let him play a poor man's Charles Woodson (when Woodson was held out of a game or when he was injured during the Super Bowl), and become a leader on special teams.
The last time he was a free agent, the Titans actually offered him a multi-year contract, but the Packers matched it. Now with a Super Bowl ring to his name, it's possible some team might view him as a legitimate nickel cornerback. If he received a contract equal to that of a low-end starter, I don't think the Packers would offer him the same. Of course, that depends on whether another team is so thin at cornerback that they'd offer him more than a couple million per season.
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Everybody luvs some Bush!
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
Bush
Ever time i`ve seen him on defense , he`s getting burned.I call him the burning bush because of it! Special teams he great ,worth a contract extension I don`t really don`t think so!
While I’ll admit that “the burning Bush” is a pretty funny nickname…
I’m actually a Jarrett Bush fan at this point. Used to despise him (I remember being filled with seething rage when he got the consecutive offsides penalties on the kickoff coverage team, and I once told my wife to “remember #24; he WILL get a penalty or give up a big play before this game is through”), but he keeps improving and figuring it out. I think he’s got a bright future.
And, just in terms of “right now,” I’d say he played better than either Tramon or Shields this past year on defense. And when you factor in the very solid contribution on STs… Face it, people, Jarrett Bush has to be considered, at the very least, a fairly decent player.
by Curly Lambeau on Feb 3, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
And, just in terms of "right now," I’d say he played better than either Tramon or Shields this past year on defense.
I’m sorry but this is so off it’s not even funny!
This is from JSOnline:Here’s the breakdown of responsibility for the 74 20-plus passes: Williams (16), Bishop (nine), Shields (nine), Bush (eight), Peprah (eight), Woodson (6½), Burnett (five), Hawk (five), Walden (two), Nick Collins (one), Pat Lee (one), Matthews (one), Raji (one) and D.J. Smith (one). One-half of a pass had no fault.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/the-rodgers-file-c63ua6p-138019428.html
I couldn’t find the snap counts anywhere unfortunately but I’d probably guess that Bush probably saw significantly less snaps than either Williams or Shields, and as the numbers above show he still managed to give up a lot of big plays. And then you’ve got to factor in that Williams and Shields almost always probably had tougher assignments then him.
He’s a good special teams player but he’s still a total liability on defense. He almost always seems to lose his guy, and when he can stay with his guy he usually isn’t aware the ball is coming when it does. If he doesn’t want too much money then yeah sure, bring him back. But if he wants to big a raise then I say let him go. A special teams player is valuable but it’s also probably the easiest thing to find.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 3, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Okay, those are convincing numbers. I guess I probably have to admit that I’m wrong here, but…
The only thing I’ll say is that Tramon and Shields both looked like they were hardly trying most of the time. Y’know, they don’t keep a stat for “number of times that a guy jogged lacksadaisically toward a wide open receiver who was obviously going to catch a slant for a huge first down.” …which, as I sat on my couch, is exactly what I saw all season.
Bush is a worker who will learn to apply technique as he continues to get experience. Whereas, with Tramon & Shields… to paraphrase Apollo Creed, “they sucked on defense for all the wrong reasons, man.” So… am I saying that Bush had the Eye of the Tiger? You know what? Yes. Yes, I am. He’s risin’ up, back on the streets. He took his time, took his chances. He went the distance now he’s not gonna’ stop. Just a man and his will to survive. It’s the…
…okay, I’ll stop.
by Curly Lambeau on Feb 3, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, I agree on Williams and Shields, especially Williams. I get that he had the shoulder thing and had to play much more off coverage then he’d probably like but that still doesn’t explain him biting on every double move run on him and looking lost pretty much all the time.
I don’t mind keeping Bush as long as it’s for something similar to his last contract.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 3, 2012 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
Bush is a worker
I HATE when people say stuff like this!
Basically everyone on the team is a “worker”. It is their job isn’t it?
by Chief Oshkosh on Feb 3, 2012 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
At least be a little more fair...
Bush also had 2 INTS with a lot fewer snaps than Shields ….Shields had 2 INTs as well…. Bush’s 1 1/2 sacks vs Woodson’s 2 1/2 sacks isn’t too shabby either.
If you are going to do a CB comparison, do it across the board, across all the relevant metrics… Also, passes defended: Jarrett Bush 6, Sam Shields 6
And we all ready know who is the better tackler (and if you don’t think that’s important, go back and see Sam Shields pansy tackle attempt against Lagarrette Blount’s 54 yard run — Bush would have destroyed him at around the 20)
Jarrett Bush is God
If you want to look at that run play
You have to look a lot further ahead of that tackle attempt than Shields. Yes, Shields should have given more effort into the tackle than that, but Shields has been playing on D for a total of 2 years now. Bishop decided to tackle Blount at the shoulders, and Tramon gave no effort at tackling Blount. Seriously, Tramon and Burnett were set up perfectly to tackle him, and Tramon gave no effort to help Burnett.
Was gonna say something to this effect as well.
Everybody knows Shields is a poor tackler — coaches included. It’s to be expected after he’s only played for defense for 2 years like you said.
I know Bush has improved on ST’s but people then seem to want to say he’s improved on defense, and while he has a little, it’s been minimal. He’s still a guy teams go after as soon as he steps onto the field, and the number of 20+ plays he gave up is a token to just that.
It’d be interesting to see how much each of our CB’s got targeted too. My guess is either Shields or Woodson saw the least balls go their way (% wise).
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 3, 2012 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
I like Shields...
But his tackliing isn’t due that much to lack of experience as it is his willingness to do it! He wants nothing to do w/ tackling anyone, much less a big RB. A WR maybe, but a big RB he has no desire to tackle. He lacks any physicality… Thats what tackling comes down to more than experience… Want to and be willing to be physical! Those aren’t really learned traits… Either you want it or you don’t.
And I agree that neither Tramon or Shields had any desire or physicality on that play!
Bush at least is willing to put his hat into it and play w/ that attitude that he’ll sacrifice his body to make the tackle.
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
Tramon also had trouble tackling
In his first few years with us. His tackling has improved greatly since when we first signed him. I agree that you have to want to tackle, and that Shields isn’t the most willing tackler out there, but some of his tackling woes are due to a lack of experience.
Tackling is as much as an art as any other part of the game, and just throwing your body around won’t get you that tackle. I love how some players play with a reckless abandon, but you also have to have technique to go along with your passion. Otherwise, it leads to big plays when you don’t make the tackle due to a lack of proper technique (ie Peprah shoulder chuck in the playoff loss). Shields is still learning the tackling technique.
Its not hard...
To tackle if you want to. Throw your shoulder into a guys legs or torso and wrap. No great technique that needs to be learned. Just have to be willing and able to hit! Shields was a WR all his life till 2 years ago and avoided contact like the plague. Thats his problem… He avoids contact. Thats not a technique or anything learned, its about desire to get the guy down and a willingness to throw your body into it.
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
Okay, sure
Tackling is just like any other technique, it needs to be learned and perfected. Anyone that coaches will tell you that. Wanting to tackle and be physical definitely helps, and you will make tackles with just being physical, but you still need to learn how to tackle. You can want to avoid contact and still be a very reliable tackler; Ive seen plenty of players hate contact and still tackle very reliably. Just like I’ve seen plenty of players play very physical but suck at tackling because of a lack of technique.
No one would say pass blocking is not that hard if you want to do it, because you have to learn the technique of pass blocking. There’s more to it than just mirroring your opponent, keeping your base underneath you, and punching out with your arms. Finesse is just as important as power.
The point being this, tackling is as much technique as it is being physical. Tackling high, even if you throw your body into it, will not get it done.
Far more Desire and Want than technique.
Show me someone that wanted to avoid contact and was a good tackler… Its an oxymorone. The two things cant coexist in one person. What makes that person a good tackler? The desire to push the guy to the sideline till he runs out of bounds? Thats not tackling…
Sorry, but the thing you have to learn to be a good tackler is being willing to hit someone, not avoid hitting someone!
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
There are other contact sports
That require tackling you know. Football is not the only contact sport. And yes, those two traits can exist in the same person. For example in rugby there are two different groups of players, forwards and backs. Us forwards love contact and can be considered the “big uglies” in football terms. Backs are more like receivers or some running backs. I’ve known plenty of backs that hate getting tackled and don’t really enjoy the physical part of the game, but are much better tacklers than some Forwards Ive played with even though they are very physical.
Point being is that you may not like contact but can still be a reliable tackler. You have to learn how to tackle though. There is more to it then just throwing your body into someone.
Sorry, but when everyone first learns how to tackle, they learn how to tackle safely and with proper form. They don’t get told to just go out there and throw your body around. They get told how to tackle, and once you learn that then your intensity steps up.
Of course they get taught how to tackle w/ proper form.
To prevent unnecessary injuries! It helps to have good form but if your not interested in contact you simply will not ever be a good tackler! Show me a guy who is willing to play physically and a guy that is a good form tackler that isn’t physical, and I’ll draft they guy who is physical, unless the talent disperity is large. You can’t win in football w/ a bunch of guys who know how to tackle but aren’t willing to do it!
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
I agree with this part
You can’t win in football w/ a bunch of guys who know how to tackle but aren’t willing to do it!
Sam Shields is just one part of the defense. AJ Hawk isn’t very physical when it comes to tackling, but he is for the most part a sure tackler. I don’t need everyone on my team to be big hitters and are physical tacklers in order to win. I do need everyone to be able to make tackles though. And with time and experience doing it, Shields will get better as a tackler.
And this is a CB we are talking about here. Shields isn’t a safety who is our last line of defense, nor is he a DL or LB who are supposed to be physical and make a bunch of tackles while not be driven backwards. That’s not a CB’s job.
with time and experience doing it, Shields will get better as a tackler.
IMO, only if he decides he is willing to play w/ more physicality. Other wise I don’t see him improving his tackling. Maybe Woodson will rub off on him a little, but it hasn’t in 2 years, so I doubt it’ll suddenly start now. As for Hawk, he has to take on OL and is fighting off those blocks alot as he is making tackles.
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
I think this whole argument has been somewhat pointless. Of course, you have to be willing to hit and experience a little pain to tackle well. But you also need to learn how to do it. They sort of go hand-in-hand.
I remember when I played DB in high school. I was little – 110 lbs and I had to tackle 200 lb guys. One reason why I was never a star. :) But it hurt, and I had to learn to do it right, or I couldn’t bring down guys who were nearly twice my weight.
Was the same...
But I always found that it wasn’t that hard to tackle once you decided that you were willing to play that way. Thats what I based my argument on… Once I decided I was willing to throw myself into it, regardless of my technique, I became alot better. Before that I knew how to tackle, but couldn’t do it.
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
Sam Shields had 9 pass defenses.
Not 6. Try giving accurate statistics, instead of twisting them to support your view.
15-1 [One and done... *SIGH*]
Back on track to Super Bowl XLVII!
MattFlynn4StartingQB
by arodgb on Feb 4, 2012 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
OK he had 6 PD in 2010
which was a pretty good year for Shields… Bush matched Shields’ 2010 output then
Jarrett Bush is God
So, the guy in his 6th year making $1.4 million...
…has finally equaled the un-drafted rookie free agent who played exactly one year of college on defense? Good for him.
13.
"Skip, once again, stop it; Be an analyst; don't be a douchebag."
No, he surpassed him...
Bush achieved his number with much fewer plays, being a mere dimeback…
Shields was the Nickel from day one, involved in over 60 percent of the plays…
You can’t type your away out of this one — Bush has surpassed Shields from his rookie year, and Bush is 27 and entering is prime. The best is yet to come. We should re-sign him…
Jarrett Bush is God
We should resign him, I agree
But I wouldn’t say the best is yet to come with Bush. Hes a good spot player on defense and a very good special teams player. But I don’t see him improving to much more than a situational spot player on D.
He should resign.
but not re-sign.
13.
"Skip, once again, stop it; Be an analyst; don't be a douchebag."
Those numbers aren't accurate.
He allowed five completions of 20 yards or more, and two touchdowns. Bush played 208 pass coverage snaps to Shields 555 pass coverage snaps. Peprah had 652 pass coverage snaps, Woodson had 583 pass coverage snaps, Tramon Williams had 636 pass coverage snaps, and Morgan Burnett had 734 pass coverage snaps.
15-1 [One and done... *SIGH*]
Back on track to Super Bowl XLVII!
MattFlynn4StartingQB
Special Teams Captain
He gives us both an excellent player on special teams and good depth in the secondary in that he can play both CB and S. He may be a more expensive back up but he is worth it and encapsulates what a true Packer is.
Bring back Bush
Mostly everyone here was complaining about our special teams last season, and now that we actually had a good year for special teams you want let go of our special teams captain? I don’t like him playing on the defense because he gives up too many plays, but he is a great special teams player.
A spot player on D and a valuable special teams member, bring the dude back.
The special teams improved due to Randall Cobb & the moving up of the kickoffs
not Jarrett Bush.
13.
"Skip, once again, stop it; Be an analyst; don't be a douchebag."
He's highly capable on special teams.
And on defense, his only role should be blitzing from the slot, an area he has excelled in. If the contract matches those talents, by all means, go for it.
"We’re gonna gather our nuts, and find out what the squirrels… we’ll be right back." - Brian Anderson
Two Words: Tracey White
The Packers realized their mistake in not bringing back a special teams stud who is a defensive dud. They will not make the same mistake twice. The special teams is adequate-to-poor WITH a great ST player like Bush. What depths would they sink WITHOUT him?
Acme Packing Company: proof that anyone can be a sports journalist.
by JSOnline Castaway on Feb 3, 2012 2:30 PM CST reply actions
I'll take my chances...
…with Jarrett Bush over Pat Lee. If he gets no offers, the Packers could sign him to the veterans’ minimum.
As much as I disliked Bush in 2008-09, I like him as a ST player and nothing else. He’s improved with experience and hard work.
Even though he has a Super Bowl ring on his finger, I don’t think that makes him that much more desirable. When Woodson left Oakland, the Packers were the only team to make him an offer. I hope that lesson isn’t lost on Bush.
Lee, on the other hand, has to go!
what WILL they do?
They WILL re-sign him. What SHOULD they do? Release him.
The guy is serviceable but has NO ceiling. Why settle for that when we could get some young guys in there that could grow into a shutdown corner?
"Poor man's Charles Woodson"
More like a homeless meth addict’s Charles Woodson.
Steve
http://nohuddleoffense.blogspot.com
by stigmo on Feb 3, 2012 3:50 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Dayumn.
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by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 3, 2012 6:03 PM CST up reply actions
1) Bush is one of the best ST guys on the team, and that is valuable.
2) He has improved as a CB. He has played several positions in the defensive backfield and it seems that they’ve found where he can be relatively effective. He’ll never be all-Pro on defense, though he could make it on ST. But he is not nearly the liability that he was a couple years ago.
3) He is the 4th corner on the team, and I’d guess that he might be up there among the best if you were to take all the #4 corners on every team and compare them.
4) I’m pretty sure that Pat Lee won’t be back, which means that at least one CB spot will open for a young prospect. Maybe even Woodson’s spot, if he goes to safety, opening up two CB spots. That means room for two young CB prospects.
5) If Davon House does well he could unseat Bush as #4 CB, and Bush would play even less on defense and more in only those spots he’s best at: close to the line, possibly blitzing.
6) TT isn’t going to overpay for anyone, so if he gets some ridiculous offer elsewhere, he’s gone.
Bush
My fear is that the Packers let go of Bush to keep the cheaper Lee. He’s not as good as Bush at either CB or ST, but he’ll be alot less expensive. Bush will likely get something more than 2M to 2.5M per and Lee can be brought back for vets min! As a 4th CB/4th Safety kinda guy he is as good as your gonna get. Tho I do think House will take the #4 CB spot from Bush this year, I still want Bush back next year!
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
Defense
The packers should consider signing free agent Cliff Avril from Detroit. The man had 11 sacks last year and spending some money on a proven defensive end is better than drafting one and risking a bust (ie. Harrell, Neal). Additionally he is young which TT likes in his people, and the packers have quite a bit of money in cap space. Then they can use a high round draft pick on a safety if Collins cannot return, a corner, or an OLB.
by James Harper124 on Feb 3, 2012 10:54 PM CST reply actions
Sigh...
You have to look at the scheme that they’ve played in. Avril is a 260 LB prototypical 4-3 speed rusher while GB runs a 3-4 defense. DEs for the 3-4 are typically at minimum 290+ LBs because they have to take on doubles teams and run stuff similar to a 4-3 DT. Honestly you might as well just suggest moving CM3 to DE, it would sound as intelligent as the Cliff Avril as a 3-4 DE suggestion does.
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
by Kuhl on Feb 3, 2012 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
spending some money on a proven defensive end is better than drafting one and risking a bust.
I think he means a proven pass rusher. With that said, there’s no guarantee that Avril will find success at a new position as a 3-4 OLB. I don’t think Avril will be worth the money he’s going to demand considering he’ll have to transition to a new position. So, while I agree with you that we shouldn’t sign Avril, I think James Harper here just mis-worded it.
One game at a time...
Maybe
That’s not how I took it.
Then they can use a high round draft pick on a safety if Collins cannot return, a corner, or an OLB.
That sounds like he wants him to play 3-4 end because the draft pick could be used on a OLB…
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
Yea no.
Cliff Avril is a dirty bastard, and by no means would TT sign a thug like that. Also, as Kuhl posted below, he doesn’t fit in our D. Granted, Capers could probably tweak a few things to make him fit, but he’d be standing up, and very uncomfortable in that position.
15-1 [One and done... *SIGH*]
Back on track to Super Bowl XLVII!
MattFlynn4StartingQB
All you have to do
is look at Kampman to see how difficult it can be for a proven pass rushing DE to play OLB
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
Bring him back,
but do it on the cheap. I think he has more value than he gets credit for.
2011: A wasted year
Say No to ALL our Defensive Backfield!!
Woodson is HOF material, just seems to be losing a step
Williams had one good year, got his contract and now seems to have taken a step back
Shields has played defense for 3 years…, and he’s our best option as a nickel corner???
Burnett and Peprah seem to have talent, but need to learn how to use it, and
Jarrett Bush, REALLY, how he has a roster spot is anyone’s guess
Pat Lee, draft bust
Nick Collins, I hope he is able to get healthy, whether he plays again or not!
That is our secondary in a nutshell. In addition to drafting DL and OL talent, we better take a look at getting some secondary help through draft or FA fast!!
just seems to be losing a step
I’d say he actually gained a step this last year. He clearly improved from 2010 to 2011.
15-1 [One and done... *SIGH*]
Back on track to Super Bowl XLVII!
MattFlynn4StartingQB
Woodson
He was one of the nominees for Defensive Player of the Year. They don’t do that just because they like his goatee.
They do love his INT's.
Personally, I think they pay a little too much attention to stats. I’m happy Woodson won his DPOY, but I didn’t think he deserved to be nominated this year. Was pretty clear to me that Woodson didn’t make nearly as many meaningful plays this year. He got at least 4 INT’s vs rookie QB’s. I love the guy, but don’t think he should have been in the discussion for it this year.
Our Biggest Challenge is how we deal w/ Success!
I'd like to see more of House before deciding whether or not to let Bush go
Bush seems to get burned easily, but has improved slightly this year, and does very well on ST… so I am on the fence about him. Last year I would have said let him walk, but I wanna see what we got out of our 4th round CB. Lee… completely disposable. I’m sure we can draft a better corner that can take his place for depth if they chose to put Woodson at safety incase (God forbid) Collins is unable to play.
When life gives ya lemons, shut up and eat your damn lemons.
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLVI, Guaranteed! - REVENGE4FAVRE
If Bush wants to stay cheap, keep him, if not, let him walk...
That is all I have to say about that…
"SOUTHERN HILLS KENNEL" ~ We Breed The Best Bitches In TEXAS!!!
GO PACK GO!!!
You've got a guy who's been in the Green Bay system for what, five years?
The coaches love him, he’s been recognized as one of the best ST’s in the league. I guess the Super Bowl INT and a few lucky plays he made this year will be key selling points to whatever team decides to sign him. I dunno, corners can be found anywhere in the draft, I really don’t care what the hell we decide to do. He’s probably had his best year in Green Bay so far.
15-1 [One and done... *SIGH*]
Back on track to Super Bowl XLVII!
MattFlynn4StartingQB
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